The Boob Group
What Does Evidence-Based Information Really Mean?
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SUNNY GAULT: Having a baby is a big deal. There are so many different choices to make. And to make those educated choices, we need information about our options. You may have heard of the term "evidence-based" information, but what exactly does that mean? And how does it differ from another kind of information out there? We are The Boob Group.
SUNNY GAULT: Welcome to The Boob Group, we are here to support all moms who want to give their babies’ breast milk and to respect the choices of moms who want to feed their babies in other ways.
I am Sunny Gaul. How do you listen to the Boob Group? As you may know, our show is available on a bunch of different platforms including iTunes, Stitcher, Sprinkers, TuneIn, Google Play Music, I'm sure there is much more other I'm not even aware of.
We also have The Boob Group app which is a free app you can access all over episodes through and we have the New Mommy Media network app. So New Mommy Media is our parent company and this is a network app so if you would like to listen to a bunch of different parenting podcasts and you don't want to have to download all the individual apps all you have to do is download our network app and you will get all the same great episodes.
What's really nice about it's there at your fingertips so wherever you’re going and you’re out pushing the stroll or your waiting for an appointment or whatever happens to be, you just have one app for everything.
So it's really helpful and you can download them whoever you get apps. So let's meet the mommy’s that are joining our conversations today. Ladies tell as a little bit of yourself and your family. Graeme let's start with you.
Graeme Seabrook: Hi, my name is Graeme and I blog over at www.postpartummommer.org . About all things kid related and parenting related but with a focus on maternal mental illnesses. I have a three-year-old little boy and a seven-month-old little girl. My son was breastfed and pumped and formula feed and my daughter so far have been exclusively breastfed so I am really tired all the night.
SUNNY GAULT: I think we can all relate to that all right, especially Alicia. Alicia just had her baby a couple of weeks ago, it's her first baby so Alicia tells as a little bit about yourself.
ALICIA: Hello yes my name is Alicia and I have a two and a half week old little girl. Her name Katens and if you hear any sounds that's going to be her, so just wish her luck with everything. I'm excited to be here and she was a hospital birth.
SUNNY GAULT: All right and Dawn Thompson is our expert but Dawn you're also a mommy so tell us a little bit about yourself.
DAWN THOMPSON: I am a mother of six and four out of the six were breastfed, two exclusive for my gosh, if it was up to my six years old he'd still be nursing, he's my youngest. My age range for children is age twenty-three to six, so big gap between all my children but I had four and then I had two really.
SUNNY GAULT: All right you are welcome. For me, I have four kids and I had mine boom boom boom boom boom. I think I did five booms it really should be boom boom boom boom, but they were all born within a five years’ time span and yes I do have a set of twins in there so there my youngest. I'm still breastfeeding them, they are identical girls, two and a half.
I have done everything when it comes to breastfeeding I had to exclusively pump with my girls when they were first born my girls plus that works plus exclusively breastfed usually tandem and I have used formula, I have donated milk, I have accepted donated breast milk. I mean I have pretty much-done everything that you can do with this.
All right well ladies thank you for joining us, we are going to take a quick break and will be right back.
SUNNY GAULT: So before we dive in into our conversation today we are doing a segment called “mama hacks”, so if you listen to The Boob Group in the past you know this is one of my favorite segments because it was created by our listeners.
You started sending us this awesome tip when it came to breastfeeding and pumping for your babies and this little nugget that I think it's really just great to share with other moms these little hacks and so I thought we need to create a segment with this.
So now you guys can send us your tips and we'll put it on the show and this tip today comes from Kristen. I just thought this was really important so it’s a very simple tip but I think we don't hear this enough. At least I didn't hear this enough when I was starting to breast my babies and it put a lot of pressure on me. So I love what she has to say she say 'it's not the end of the world if you don't pump enough and she says I stressed away too much about this. Having the supplement with formula is not the end of the world or the end of breastfeeding'.
Like I said I think that is a very simple concept but I think we have a tendency to get wrapped up so much especially if we are so intent on breastfeeding that you know it's an all or nothing thing and that's not necessarily the case. Obviously the more we stress about it the more it impacts our milk supply the more we don't have the letdowns we want to have when we are breastfeeding and so I just thought it was a good tip to keep in mind.
All your fearless pumpers are out there you know or just trying to breastfeed too that it's okay, it’s not all or nothing. So Kristen thanks’ so much sending this in.
If you guys have a mama hack that you want for us to share with our audience please let us know you can e-mail us through the website. Also, you can send a voicemail through the website which is great because then you can actually give the tip yourself and we'll just include that in the future episode.
SUNNY GAULT: Today we are talking about evidence-based information, what that exactly means and Dawn Thompson is our expert.
You met her earlier she is a doula and the Founder of www.improvingbirth.org , whose mission is to bring respectful evidence-based care to childbirth. So Dawn welcome to The Boob Group. I think this is the first time we've had on The Boob Group. We've had you on Preggie Pals and maybe even on our newer show newbies and parent savers maybe I don't know but I think this is the first time for The Boob Group so welcome.
DAWN THOMPSON: It is thank you so much.
SUNNY GAULT: So let's talk about what evidences based means.
DAWN THOMPSON: It's a combination of things really. What it is a combination of clinical expertise and all practice along with breast research but in addition to that, which is the part that a lot of people miss, is that it also takes into account patient values. So it's all three, it should be all three things put together.
SUNNY GAULT: It sounds complicated, is it complicated?
DAWN THOMPSON: Well I mean I think not really. I mean the reality is that most of what we get now in maternity care is kind of this umbrella that everyone falls under and it doesn’t really take into account what the patient desires should be part of the process.
SUNNY GAULT: Okay, real quick I wanted to pull the other moms on the conversation. Moms have you heard of this term evidence based information or what have you heard, Graeme?
Graeme: You know what, I haven't until you came up with the topic and I actually stayed away from Google this time so that I can just be learning while I'm here.
SUNNY GAULT: Okay, good and you usually consult with doctor Google on everything
Graeme: I do
SUNNY GAULT: Alicia having just had a baby and gone through all the maternity care and everything, have you heard of evidenced based care information practice before?
ALICIA: I'm really kind of in the same boat as Graeme, I haven't heard of it specifically I guess with the term it kind of seems a bit self-explanatory but as far as the bigger picture and what it really means as making educated choices in this day and age I hadn't really done a whole lot in regards to that yet
SUNNY GAULT: Dawn are you surprised? Are you surprised by this?
DAWN THOMPSON: I'm not, I'm not at all actually because I didn't know any of this stuff until I started doing what I do and when you become a doula and you start working within the system because that is exactly what it is, it is a system. Unfortunately, the patient is often lost in the system. What a lot of people don't know is that it takes an average in obstetrics of seventeen years for evidence to become practice.
One of the things I use as an example is a huge example, the fact that we've known for over thirty years that episiotomy causes the harm that it was developed to prevent. We've known this for seventeen years and yet there are still providers around the country doing them every single day.
SUNNY GAULT: Why the lag time, I mean it’s not the technology that we can't get them the information, what's going on here?
DAWN THOMPSON: That's a very good question, it’s the question of the day really. Because there are so many other things that feed into practice, it’s not just what the evidence says. Unfortunately, many of the decisions that are made by the providers in childbirth are based on convenience; they are based on liability concerns and financial concerns before what's best for moms and babies, unfortunately.
SUNNY GAULT: That actually makes a lot of sense right because I know a lot of places I means it kind of have to look at their bottom line a little bit. I understand how finances can kind of . . . and convenience and stuff can play into it. I mean you can't go bankrupt but there has to be some sort of common ground here right?
DAWN THOMPSON: Yes, I mean and there are providers out there that are doing it well so we know it’s possible but really the biggest concern and the biggest thing that prevents us from receiving evidenced based care is liability concerns and what we know now though is that liability concerns most of it is perceived liability risk. The chances that that a doctor gets sued actually is very slim but it drives all the policy. Much of the policies in the hospital are being made by lawyers, not by the people practicing at all.
SUNNY GAULT: It’s so sad
DAWN THOMPSON: It’s so sad but it is just the reality of where we live and the time that we live in.
SUNNY GAULT: So the opposite then of evidenced based care is what we are calling routine care. Can you tell us a little bit, I know we've been chatting about it but what is it? What's the danger of routine care?
DAWN THOMPSON: Well it just puts everybody under the same umbrella. There is no individualized situation so for instance if you are diagnosed with gestational diabetes there is a list of guidelines that providers often follow without really looking at what's going on with that mother. The risk is a big baby right with gestational diabetes. But there are lots of women who control their diabetes throughout the entire pregnancy and have normal size babies and yet they are still being told they have to do an induction at thirty-nine weeks because there is a risk of this huge baby but they are not looking at the fact that woman has controlled her diabetes the entire time and there is no reason for her to go through that induction medically speaking.
Realistically she should just be allowed to go through the pregnancy as normal but that's routine care. She falls under the routine care that happens because it’s so complicated right, it goes into so many different levels but there is then that risk is if they didn't do the induction at thirty-nine weeks and there were a shoulder distorted and the baby got hurt in any way then the parents can sue the doctor like it’s just this dominal effect all the time.
That's a really good example of what routine care really looks like, there is this list of guidelines that everybody follows for everyone and there is no individualized care.
SUNNY GAULT: I feel like it’s just being driven by fear. That's the thing that keeps coming to my head
DAWN THOMPSON: Yes, a hundred percent.
SUNNY GAULT: Oh my goodness.
Alica: Could a lot of that be mitigated by just talking to the mom or mom and dad or mom and mom whatever, in the example that you just gave okay so mom has gestational diabetes, talk to mom and say okay now this is what we would normally do, do you want to try? What do you want to try? Here are the risks, here is what we know so far and talk to the mom and if she chooses the routine care if she chooses what she thinks is the safest thing great. If the chooses no I've been doing this on my own and let’s see her actually big the baby is and make a decision off of that. Then how do they sue afterward if they were educated and they were informed and they were empowered to make that choice, I would think that the incidence of lawsuits would go down?
DAWN THOMPSON: Significantly, I think that we know that for sure but putting into practice when providers only have an average of six minutes per patient it’s a problem. It’s why I said a system because it’s more of a systematic problem. This isn't necessarily a problem with the providers although there are troublesome providers, don't get me wrong but it’s an entire system that it’s the challenge.
SUNNY GAULT: How are all these treated here in the USA? I know you've been working and pushing this forward for a while, how is it being perceived? Are we making a difference here in the USA? Are people listening are they starting to question this idea of routine care?
DAWN THOMPSON: They definitely are. We are seeing more and more women educating themselves and putting together their birth preferences, we've seen now for the third year in a row the cesarean rate go down although it’s a mini scale and it’s a very small amount and some of the VBAC rates are finally starting to climb although those are dismal in comparison to what they should and could be. But the problem is that when you challenge a provider often times in these scenarios and say I don't want routine care, this is what I want, unfortunately what happens when you are backing that system, a lot of times ego is really unfortunately involved and it winds up being like women are insulting the system right, like we know better, we know what's better for you, don't go do doctor Google exactly what you said earlier about that because there is definitely an 'I role' that happens when women come in with their birth plans and it’s an unfortunate thought process.
We know that there are great doctors who are doing it and doing it successfully so we need more of them and more providers willing to see where they can improve their practices.
SUNNY GAULT: So if moms are listening and they say this sounds like a good idea, I believe in the whole concept of evidenced based information and practice but how do they even go about trying to find a provider that would be more open to this? It’s not like people are putting on their side the seal of approval right that says I am evidenced based, how do they know?
DAWN THOMPSON: We are working on that actually, we'll talk about that. The best thing in my opinion that you can do is look to the birth professionals in your community, the doulas, and the childbirth educators even the yoga and pre-natal yoga instructors will know who the good providers in town are. That is where you should start I believe. Start with those people because they will tell you where to go.
Otherwise it’s impossible, there is zero transparency and in fact, most providers when you ask them what their cesarean rate is or what their induction rate is they have no idea
SUNNY GAULT: Really?
DAWN THOMPSON: Yes, they don't have any idea, they don't track it for themselves. The hospital will track it but the hospital is there to protect the provider, they are not there to protect the consumer, unfortunately. The consumer reports just did this whole thing over the last six months about cesarean rates around the country and they finally made cesarean rates in hospitals all over available publicly. It’s been a big eye opener and a lot of hospitals are scrambling to change that.
SUNNY GAULT: I'm assuming the rates are really high
DAWN THOMPSON: Yeah, I mean some hospitals are as high as fifty percent.
SUNNY GAULT: Oh my goodness, and in that do they track it according to like the first baby, the second baby anything like that?
DAWN THOMPSON: All the numbers that they did statistics for the consumer reports was first-time low-risk moms
SUNNY GAULT: Oh my goodness, first-time low-risk moms?
Graeme: So this is not an emergency?
DAWN THOMPSON: No and I think it’s really important for people to understand that the majority of the emergencies that happen at childbirth are caused by what we are doing to mothers when they are labor instead of allowing the process to happen. That's like a whole other discussion right?
SUNNY GAULT: Right, totally. Let's take a quick break. We've been chatting for a while, when we come back we are going to talk more about evidence-based maternity and labor delivery practice and then how does all these impact breastfeeding? We'll be right back.
SUNNY GAULT: Welcome back, we are continuing our discussion about the term evidenced-based, what it means and how we make sense of this for moms out there who want to seek practitioners that are embracing this concept. Dawn Thompson of imrovingbirth.org is our expert. So, Dawn a big general question here but we've been talking about how maternity care, labor, and delivery all these things, it obviously impacts breastfeeding, what are we seeing here? How are we seeing this impact breastfeeding?
DAWN THOMPSON: One of the things we are talking about is routine care and I'll just use this as an example because it is what affects breastfeeding the most and a lot of women have no idea that is what was the big obstacle that they, faced post-partum, and that is IV fluids. What we are doing when we give moms IV fluids is we are flooding her tissues with fluids.
It takes an average of three to five days for that to come off the body. Imagine there are women who go in for an induction and they get on IV fluids from the get-go, from the minute they walk into the hospital until the minute their baby is born. A lot of times these inductions last two and three days, so now their body has been overly saturated and then your milk comes in and so is all that fluid in your tissues so now engorgement is significantly a problem. It also makes it very difficult for your new baby to latch on because your breast is so engorged. Just that one routine affects breastfeeding for everyone if you are having IV fluids.
SUNNY GAULT: Yes, so I was just going to say like for moms that maybe forget what it is like to get all those fluids, what is the routine then? You get it immediately when you are admitted? What’s the point of the fluid? What is the fluid first of all? What is it that is going through you?
DAWN THOMPSON: It's saline, I mean it’s just water essentially but there is a lot of research out there saying we should not be doing IV fluids but again here is that same thing that goes in, we've known this now for multiple years and it takes a very long time for that to actually enter into the practice or stop practicing it.
SUNNY GAULT: Well what was the original thought process of why we needed it, though? It doesn’t make a lot of sense from the beginning for me.
DAWN THOMPSON: Yeah, it doesn’t to me either but I don't know the history of it, to be honest with you. I know that they require that you are well hydrated before they do an epidural because that can cause your blood pressure issues and things like that when most women are having to get some pain medication of some sort, they want them to be well hydrated so you don't have other complications. So, if we were all just well hydrated it wouldn't be a problem.
SUNNY GAULT: So, drink your water people
Graeme: Couldn’t people say we are not doing this until you've had this amount of water instead of the IV?
DAWN THOMPSON: No, it takes longer like through the IV it saturates the systems quicker than if you drink it. It’s different. It’s got to go through your whole digestive system in order to get to your tissues and all that stuff so takes a bit longer
Graeme: This is why you are the expert then
SUNNY GAULT: You know it’s so funny, I remember when I was giving birth when I was in labor with my first son and I really wanted an epidural, I'm just not a big fan of pain and I just wanted an epidural. I remember I was admitted and all this stuff is going on and they are having me sign all these papers and stuff when I'm having contractions which have a history of going full speed and I have no breaks in between and it will just last for hours and hours.
I was just in an enormous amount of pain and I remember them putting IV's in me and saying we have to get through this, we have to. You’ve got to have X amounts of bags around. I don't even know what they were saying a certain amount of fluid had to go through my system before they would give me this epidural and I remember being so frustrated I was just like people I am in so much pain you have to give this thing as quickly as possible. So I know what you are talking about because I have some personal experience with that.
Yes is there anything else that we are seeing if not Graeme we need to make sure that we share your story too so anything else though before we move on to the next topic as far as things that are impacting breastfeeding anything that you are seeing?
DAWN THOMPSON: The other thing is that we see is how our decision in early labor can affect the duration of the labor and then you know how it might end in a cesarean. Which then and I guess it isn't too much of the impact of breastfeeding as much as it is about the gut flora and establishing the gut flora and how important that breastfeeding is if you've had a cesarean.
But in addition to that having a cesarean makes breastfeeding in general very difficult from you know just having the pressure of the baby on the incision things occur and much of the routine care. A lot of people don't understand that one in three women is now giving birth via metro-abdominal surgery as an average across the country and some hospitals like we are talking about more than others.
So when you are talking like one in three that also mean you know 42 percent of first-time moms are being induced with artificial drugs and how that impacts the fluid that you are receiving and impact you know like the whole thing as a whole affects breastfeeding.
SUNNY GAULT: All right so yes Graeme we need you to share your story.
GRAEME SEABROOK: Okay so I had an emergency C-section with my son and then because of some scar tissue and many, many other reasons I ended up having a scheduled C-section with my daughter. Both of them have had what I think of as very serious digestive issues. My son was on pro-biotic and I was on a really restrictive diet and eventually I just could do anymore with the breastfeeding and pumping and the diet. It was too much for me so we switched him to formula and of course he had to go on the really pre-broken down really specialized most expensive of course formula.
With my daughter, I'm exclusively breastfeeding but she has milk, soya and protein intolerants. She’s not allergic to anything but she's severely intolerant of a lot of foods, have got a list. And we don't ever know about that of course until I have already eaten the food and she's already in pain. It's not a thing that we really test you know a seven-month-old baby for, so just finding out about all of these foods and all of these issues and being on the diet is rough quite honestly and it makes breastfeeding really hard.
I'm not sure I know it's one of the reasons I could not keep doing it the first time. If I didn't have so much support and the very specific work environment that I do, I don't know that I will be able to do it this time either. All that being said my Pediatrician has told me multiple times that this is about the gut flora.
This is about the bacteria that’s in their stomachs. I have been referred to a wonderful pediatric nutritionist who's helping me with them. I have a lot of support now.
Is there something that could be done before this that could have is there anything that we know about that could have made this either now as much of a problem or not a problem at all? I know things might have been better if I could have delivered vaginally but that just honestly was not going to happen. We almost died the first time so my C-section was very necessary. I know that's a long question.
DAWN THOMPSON: I got where you are going with it, so I think this is all very fresh and new information and there is definitely research going on about it currently. But we do know that virginal walls secrete I don't know what it called specifically so I apologize but essentially the baby comes through when it goes through the vagina and it then basically absorbs through the baby's skin, eyes, nose, ears, mouth everything and establishes the gut. When they don't go through the vagina obviously that then isn't present. The baby is not getting that and doesn’t have the gut then established properly.
There is some research going on that they are wiping and swiping the vagina and then essentially wiping the baby down with vaginal secretions and they are looking to see if that is going to work. I don't think anybody really knows yet. Like I said its fairly new information but so far the preliminary information is saying yes, that it is going to work.
Graeme: Is this the same reason that they are saying now not to wash babies right after labor?
DAWN THOMPSON: Yes absolutely. There is so much that goes on in the first twenty-four hours in particular for the bay based on everything, the vanex like all the things that are happening absolutely. There are a lot of things in the process that we just keep messing with and we have to stop messing with it. There is even this whole, this is off topic a little bit, whether or not we should be putting hats on newborns. This entire thing that stops happening, the bonding between mom and baby the minute you put a hat on the baby because moms are ingesting and smelling the top of the baby's head and falling in love with their babies and we mess it up.
ALICIA: I kept taking it off
DAWN THOMPSON: Yes, your intuition was telling you.
ALICIA: She had the best hair that was so soft and perfect and I just
DAWN THOMPSON: By the way that also helps establish breast milk guys, it also helps all those oxytocin, we release all these other things in your brain, we are just messing with the process way too much so every opportunity that we can to get back to the normal natural process of childbirth is important and that includes how we treat the babies when they come out.
Graeme: And I would think that that would be especially important for women like me who had to have that emergency C-section. So, if something has to happen that is already messing stuff up.
I would think that after that we want to try and get as quickly back to what would have happened if the baby had been born vaginally.
DAWN THOMPSON: Absolutely, and I mean its why there are so much of the family centered cesarean movement going on
ALICIA: Which we had and we did didn’t know all of them were wonderful. It was amazing, the second one was and it was absolutely amazing. We didn't watch the C-section which was an option that I was like no that's okay, that's the line for me.
DAWN THOMPSON: In most cases, you can't see it because your belly is in the way of the
ALICIA: I didn’t want him to catch a cold [inaudible 00:30:03] But everything else since like I had her improved much immediately right on me and that is not going to smell that little head and it was amazing.
DAWN THOMPSON: Yeah, we've proven that it's crucial and I mean if I could tell you how many stories I've had of women who didn't see their babies you know they saw them that split second when they lifted the baby over the thing and then didn't see them for two or three or four hours. It’s very detrimental from a relationship-building and certainly from a breastfeeding standpoint. I'm sure if you took Sunny if you took a poll of the women who were separated from their babies for long periods of time after birth how their breastfeeding relationship was, I bet you would find that it was pretty severely the impact.
SUNNY GAULT: Yeah for sure. I'm wondering, we said that stuff is going on now, we are reviewing we are testing stuff or whatever, at what point does something get classified as evidenced-based? I don't know if there is a technical process for okay now enough stuff has been done we consider that we have enough evidence to call it evidence-based. Is there a way to kind of define that at all?
DAWN THOMPSON: I mean it means it’s been published, it’s been reviewed, and it’s been like those are the things that deem something viable. Whether or not it has been reviewed and proven and so on and so forth.
SUNNY GAULT: It’s going to take a little bit of time for sure to get all that?
DAWN THOMPSON: For sure, I mean I think in my opinion and it’s why I started improving birth, it’s the consumer that needs to put pressure on the system to make it happen sooner. We live in a day and age where you and I can go read the green journal just as easily as our provider can. We can go into Google and we are not just talking about a blog, mommy blogs we are talking about real well-read women who are going out there and reading the research. Not just because some mommy blogger on Facebook group said that she should.
The reality is that we can put pressure on the system. You can take if you've got a provider who is saying to you 'I need to induce you for big baby’. There is research out there that you can walk into your doctor’s office and have a discussion and say this is why I don't want to do an induction for a big baby and this is the research that supports me not doing that. And I'm willing to take responsibility for my choices. That is how we change things, that is how we change things is being proactive, being empowered, taking control of our own care decisions and also taking responsibility for those decisions.
SUNNY GAULT: All right, so the last question as we wrap up all this up is what can we do as moms to help increase the amount of support for evidence-based information? Is there something we can be doing to help with this process and just bring it to light?
DAWN THOMPSON: I think we are doing a lot of things that are improving birth. But also sharing information to I mean we live in an era of social media where everything is available to us at the tip of our fingers. Sharing evidence-based information with our friends and family who are going through the process now you know they are the ones pregnant and trying to give them as much information as possible so that they can make educated decisions about their care.
Far too often our care like I said earlier is based on convenience, it’s based on financial and liability concerns of someone else. The reality is those concerns that providers have that the system has that the hospital has the weight is being bearded by women and their babies.
We have to be proactive and part of that process is sharing information, educating yourself right, because we can't continue to be like 'oh he went to medical school he knows better than me'. He has a lot or she has a lot of pressures on them that drive their decision making and it’s not unfortunately always what's best for you.
The third is participating in things like our rally to improve birth which is what we do every labor day across the country or the week of Labor Day. We have rallied all over the country to just get media attention about spreading the word about what evidence-based care looks like and what we should be expecting as mothers.
SUNNY GAULT: All right well ladies thanks so much for being with us today and for sharing your experiences. If you are a member of The Boob Group club then be sure to check out the bonus content for this episode. You had Dawn just talk a little bit more about improving birth and she is going to share a little bit more information about the efforts and how you guys can get involved and that's all in our bonus content.
SUNNY GAULT: Hey, Boob Group, we have a comment from one of our listeners and we love receiving mail from you guys. This was actually a comment posted to our Facebook page and it was regarding a recent episode that we released called Breast milk and Babies Immune System. And this came from Susan Centrally and she writes, “I have really enjoyed this podcast, unfortunately, my breastfeeding journey is over for my daughter twenty-six months old. I have enjoyed your podcast tremendously while I was breastfeeding my son and daughter who are now five and two and a half. They were never sick when I was breastfeeding. My son had his first ear infection right after I stopped nursing at eighteen months and my daughter has not had one at all. They hardly ever get sick only colds that they bounce back from. I strongly agree breast milk had a lot to do with it and getting their immune system up. Thanks again I hope to return listening to your podcast again soon."
All right Susan, thanks so much for this and yeah we can't agree more, breast milk is so good for our babies in so many different ways and we are so glad you're babies were healthy while you were breastfeeding and you gave them such a great start in life. Awesome mama!
Okay, if you guys have comments for our shows or you just want to send us a note and say hey, we would love to hear from you. Head on over to our website at www.newmommymedia.com , click on the contact link and type away and you can also send us a voice mail and that way we can put it in the show as well, and that number is 619 8664 775. I can't wait to hear from you
That wraps up our show for today, thanks so much for listening to The Boob Group.
Don’t forget to check out our sister show:
• Preggie Pals for expecting parents
• Newbies for newly post-partum moms
• Parent Savers for moms and dads with toddlers
• Twin Talks for parents of multiples.
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