Transcript: Breastfeeding After Previous Low Milk Supply
The Boob Group
Breastfeeding After Previous Low Milk Supply
Please be advised, this transcription was performed from a company independent of New Mommy Media, LLC. As such, translation was required which may alter the accuracy of the transcription
[00:00:00]
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Lisa Marasco : When a mother has experienced a chronic milk supply with one of her babies, she may wonder what she can do the next time around to have a greater milk supply. Fortunately, there are many ways were mom can increase her milk supply with subsequent children. I am Lisa Marasco, an International Board Certified Lactation Consultant and co-author of the Breastfeeding Mother’s Guide to Making More Milk. Today we are discussing breastfeeding after a previous low milk supply; this is the Boob Group, Episode 28.
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Robin Kaplan : Welcome to the Boob Group, broadcasting from the Birth Education Center of San Diego, I am your host Robin Kaplan. I am also an International Board Certified Lactation Consultant and owner of the San Diego Breastfeeding Center. At the Boob Group we have your online support group for all things related to breastfeeding. Have you joined our brand new Boob Group club? All Boob Group members will get access to all of our hyped episodes, plus bonus interviews, transcripts and special discounts and giveaways from our partners, plus you can interact with all the content through the web or through our free Boob Group app available at Apple iTunes store and Amazon market place. Today I am joined by three lovely panelists in the studio, ladies! Introduce yourselves please.
Ashley Baker : Hi, my name is Ashley, I am a speech pathologist. I have 2 children both girls, one is 2 years old and one is 3 months old.
Laura Cecil : I am Laura, I am 31 years old. I am a stay at home mom to 2 boys aged 4 and 20 months.
Elizabeth Pasimio : I am Elizabeth, I am also 31 years old and I am Master student becoming an Acupuncturist. I have one child and he is almost 8 months old.
Robin Kaplan : Fantastic, thank you for coming to the show ladies!
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[Featured Segments: News Headlines(Call 1-800-NIP-FREE)]
Robin Kaplan : So, let’s kick off today’s episode with some breastfeeding stories making headlines around the internet in this story and all of them are placed on our Boob Group Pinterest Board, if you would like to check them out. So, something that I found was that there is an organization that we mention them quite often actually called “Best for Babes” and they have a brand new nursing in public hotline. And what they have done is, they have decided to help different states realize how challenging it can be for women to meet their breastfeeding goals when they are having a tough time breastfeeding in public. And so, they set up this hotline where moms who have been victimized through nursing in public incident can call and report the issue to “Best for Babes” and they are hoping that this will you know, if you can record all of them and keep records of them that they can then share these with the law making and people who will hopefully start putting this into practice into their laws. That nursing in public and discriminating against it is actually not constitutional so, ladies! I was just gonna kind of open this up to you what do you think about this hotline and do you think it might be helpful?
Ashley Baker : I think anything that gathers support from other women that are breastfeeding to make it more comfortable for me to go out to a restaurant or sit in a library and be able to nurse my daughter and feel comfortable, would be great.
Robin Kaplan : How about you Laura?
Laura Cecil : I think any support moms can get in breastfeeding no matter where they are, is great.
Robin Kaplan : Absolutely, and the nice thing about is that when you call everything is kept confidential so, it’s not like your names gonna be put out there. And the cool thing also is one of the women who is actually spear heading this is actually Michelle Hickman, who is a Target mom. So, the women who had you know, was kicked out of the Target because she was breastfeeding there so, she is kind of making this mission that she doesn’t want that to happen to anyone else. So, if you are interested in calling about nursing in public hotline for “Best for Babes” their phone number is 855-NIP-FREE so, 855-NIP-FREE, Nursing in Public Free. Alright, well thanks for sharing your opinions ladies and we will right back.
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Robin Kaplan : So, today on the Boob Group we are discussing breastfeeding after a previous low milk supply, our expert Lisa Marasco is an International Board Certified Lactation Consultant in private practice and with Wick in Santa Barbra, California. She is also the co-author of the Breastfeeding Mother’s Guide to Making More Milk and a contributing author to the co-curriculum for Lactation Consultant. Thanks so much for joining us, Lisa and welcome to the show.
Lisa Marasco : Thank you so much.
Robin Kaplan : So, Lisa if you wouldn’t mind let’s get started with the basics and I realize this is a huge, huge, huge topic to talk in such a short period of time but what do you find are the main reasons why breastfeeding mothers may have a low supply?
[00:05:09]
Lisa Marasco : I think that the main reason that is, that encompasses most of the issues that we face not just women not understanding how the process works, not understanding how to respond to their babies? We live in a predominantly bottle feeding society and we tend to approach our breastfed babies as bottle fed babies. So, I find that women have expectations of how long a baby should sleep, what baby should do? And we have got the fear, our culture is interfering with women being able to respond with your baby saying if I need eat every hour and a half, two hours. If that doesn’t fit a bottle feeding baby paradigm and so, I find women trying to be, trying to make their babies look like the other babies and then in the process by not responding enough, not feeding them enough that probably is the no.1 cause of the low milk production that and the introduction of bottle to swim. There are many women who and I work with are very, very concerned about the babies ability to take a bottle before they go back to work and practically from the time they come home from the hospital that is their concern that the baby takes the bottle. They may also put formula in the bottle not realizing they could put breast milk in the bottle and every time they replace the feeding that way their body is getting less stimulation. So, it’s kind of a management thing really just a misunderstanding of how the process works and sometimes women are unwillingly sabotaging themselves and unfortunately don’t figure out until things start deteriorating a bit.
Robin Kaplan : Yeah and how about for the women who are breastfeeding on their babies cues? Is there a percentage that you may be know who actually clinically are having challenges, bringing in a fuller milk supply based on their anatomy or their hormones and things like that?
Lisa Marasco : I think I need to do a study on this. I get asked these questions so many times and there is only one study that is attempted to address it was done in 1980’s [In Audible(00:07:00)] and colleagues. And in a, I don’t remember this study group is maybe 40, 80 women something like that and they found a 5% insufficient milk rate and that has, that’s the basis of the number that continues to be recorded today but it was a very small population. And probably should check because I suspect that there are more women struggling than we first thought.
Robin Kaplan : Absolutely, ladies and our panel, do you mind sharing when you are able to pinpoint that you had a little milk supply and possibly what caused it if you happened to know that information, Ashley do you mind?
Ashley Baker : With my first daughter she had a poor latch and I had a lot pain and so, I think I had a whole time letting down in getting started really with breastfeeding. So, I really, really breastfed her for few days so, when it came to my second daughter I wasn’t sure how my supply was gonna come in, initially it looked pretty good in about two weeks in, it looked just a tad low. And it’s been there ever since, I have tried lots of different things since then to figure what’s causing this milk supply issue but I have never really pinpointed one thing.
Robin Kaplan : How about you Laura?
Laura Cecil : I was told with both my boys at two days old that they lost much weight and it was that they won’t get enough from breastfeeding and so, it’s pretty early on. And with both of them I never really figured it out why, I tried everything you can imagine to get supply up but nothing ever helped.
Robin Kaplan : Yeah, how about you Elizabeth?
Elizabeth Pasimio : Not exactly, it was complicated situation where it became evident that his latch was poor but my supply seemed okay and then it wasn’t really until 4 to 5 months that I, I realized that I might have insufficient angular tissue. And then it was why the supply was low so, it was I was never really thought it was me or him, I was always trying to figure it out and kind of been on my own in deciding what it was.
Robin Kaplan : Sure, sure. Lisa, when tongue tie and poor latch can be ruled out what are some ways that a mom can increase her supply meaning more so it’s kind of based on what’s going on with her rather than with the baby?
Lisa Marasco : Okay, the No.1 golden rule is increasing frequency in a reasonable manner because I say that because people can take that too far and exhaust themselves. But you have been feeding every two and half, three hours, try every two hours, try during the day time just picking the baby up very, very often and just trying to increase that frequency. That is the No.1 most important thing another thing that women do is pump doing some pose and I often have women pump may be 5 or 10 minutes after each feeding just for additional stimulation. But the answer to that question really depends on what’s going on and with the three women here today there are lot question marks not really understanding is it my body, is it something else. And my assumption today on three of you is that there is something going on with your body and this you may have already tried all these things and this may not address your problem. And then so, galactic logs are something else that can be helpful, I am a fan, a big fan of being very intentional in selecting things knowing as much as I can about what’s going on you know, if it’s the breasts not growing enough during pregnancy things like that I will select specific herbs to fit the properties that may go that direction, that, that’s the next level. Beyond that there are lots of complementary therapies that are worth considering as well including Acupuncture.
[00:10:41]
Robin Kaplan : Yeah, do you have others that you would like to mention as well?
Lisa Marasco : I am kind of exploring the placenta in calculation right now there is this old, old, old research on that you know, the jury is still out on that one but I would like to take you know, just kind of put that in the back of my mind. I am very intrigue with Chiropractic, there have been some cases, I have had a case of a mom whose milk supply was sluggish with her fifth, sixth child and we were dealing with some tongue tie, got that taken care off. I sent her to the Chiropractic but the baby was still not opening wide and he worked on her and turned out and asked her you know, “how are you feeling?” And she said you know, “I have had this back pain since pregnancy” and he worked on her and she went home and she said you know, “Later on that day all of a sudden my milk was coming out better.” And we have been struggling for I don’t know 6 or 8 weeks and all of a sudden there is, that was her thing, there was a problem with the nurse.
Robin Kaplan : Okay, that’s, that’s fascinating because often I will send babies to the Chiropractor but I haven’t really thought of sending the mom to the Chiropractor for that. So, that’s a great advice, Lisa when a women is pregnant are there certain and she has had a previous low milk supply, are there safe herbs that she can take that might help maximize her supply the next time around?
Lisa Marasco : Okay, so the word safe means we studied it and we know for sure and we haven’t studied any of them so, we cannot say for sure. So, the next step is we kind of have to look at how many people around have done this you know, is this something in other cultures they have taken it, nothing bad happened. We can take a look at the herbs and the properties and you know, is there anything about herbs like fenugreek is considered to have a muscle contracting stimulation property. So, we have tend to steer way from fenugreek during pregnancy, some of the herbs that you want the ones being used more now is goats strew and we have no information positive or negative. So, the women who have chosen that because of its angular tissue stimulating properties typically will take it in the last trimester, in the last 2 or 3 months. And modest to suggest when nobody is taking large to suggest and they are monitoring the situation but I do wanna say is we are talking about herbs that it’s really, really important that moms talk with their pregnancy healthcare providers before they dive into this area. Get your healthcare provider on board with you to make the decisions with them that I just think that’s really important, you don’t wanna be doing the stuffs that they don’t know about, you wanna make sure you have somebody monitoring everything. Then herbs like Alpha Alpha is considered to be pretty benign that’s when that I think women can take throughout their pregnancy needs. In fact there is one herbal product on the market that is made to help increase milk during the pregnancy when a women nursing and is made up of herbs that are considered safe for pregnancy and I feel very comfortable for instance that product just taking that might be stimulating and helpful as well.
Robin Kaplan : Wow! That’s a great idea and kind of going a long net too so, a mom who has had a previous low milk supply and now she has had her baby, do you recommend that she starts pumping immediately so that way if the baby and I guess if the baby that you had mentioned the baby is feeding very frequently may be she doesn’t need the pump. But if say the baby is feeding very roughly 8 times in a 24 hour period, do you think that it would be helpful to throw in a couple pumping sessions to help maximize her supply?
Lisa Marasco : Well, I could tell you my co-author Dianna that’s one of the strategies that she uses with the mothers that who are dealing with the reduction surgery and the idea is to super stimulate what you have. It’s not that in the case the baby is doing a good job but you know, babies quit when they are full or when they are tired and the pump, the pump keeps going. So, the idea is just to super, super stimulate what you do have.
Robin Kaplan : Okay, ladies did you do anything I know that there are two women in the panel who have had second children and so, Ashley and Laura did you do anything extra right after your second was born to help bring in a fuller supply or may be during your pregnancy as well?
[00:15:07]
Ashley Baker : I actually when I was pregnant I did some breast massage because I had rather that my help stimulate more growth because I was checking my breast for growth and I didn’t have a lot during pregnancy. I also expressed a little bit of Colostrum may be more out of curiosity to see if it was there and I did try to do some manual expression after my daughter was born as well. But I probably didn’t do the best job at it because I was tired most of the time.
Robin Kaplan : How about you Laura?
Laura Cecil : I didn’t do anything well when I was pregnant may be you know, expressing a little Colostrum same thing out of curiosity if anything was going on. But then after he was born I was definitely more feeding him frequently and he had a good latch too that was sure, he knew it he was doing.
Robin Kaplan : I am glad that you both brought up this expression of Colostrum in pregnancy that’s something we interviewed Dianna actually in our last episode and she had mentioned that. And we didn’t really get to delve into it too much but Lisa, do you find that is helpful and if it is why is it that something that women should kind of think about doing?
Lisa Marasco: I have not possibly able to do that lot with my clients but I know other mothers that have been doing it and Sue Clarke is a Lactation Consultant in Australia, she is the one that really got all the ruling on this. And the idea that just touching the breasts, just using massage, taking some Colostrum out is kind of stimulating the body to make more, to make more kind of get it going even before the baby comes you are not making mature milk but just kind of keeping that flow the Colostrum going. And some people feel that it is helpful there is a culture where is the job, the responsibility of the husband, the partner to cyclize breasts during the pregnancy in that culture they have excellent milk supply. And that’s his job to make sure that she has excellent milk supply so, that strategy is based on that cultural strategy.
Robin Kaplan : Wow!
Lisa Marasco : Now, I do wanna just caution the idea of checking your Colostrum to make sure that you have Colostrum and I totally get that most ironically my daughter, we could not get a drop out of her whole pregnancy and not even could I get a drop out of her after the baby was born but her milk came in normally. So, whether you can express Colostrum physically or not is not the last word on whether you can make milk.
Robin Kaplan : And also the nipple stimulation, if you are at high risk for preterm labor and things like that would you use caution in that as well?
Lisa Marasco : Only if you are at high risk.
Robin Kaplan : Okay.
Lisa Marasco : This is something women are not doing the whole pregnancy they are generally doing it the last month or so and so long you are not forbidden to have sex, you not forbidden to you know, nurse at all or things like that it should not be a big deal. And the bottom line is that if you find that you are triggering going to make contractions you stop, you just stop.
Robin Kaplan : Pay attention to your body.
Lisa Marasco : Yes.
Robin Kaplan : Fantastic, alright when we come back Lisa will discuss some additional ways to maximize your milk supply as well as how emotions and stress comply a role in breast milk supply? We will be right back.
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Robin Kaplan : Okay and we are back with our expert today, we are talking about breastfeeding after previous little milk supply and our expert Lisa Marasco is here talking about this topic with us. And sol, and during the break Lisa had mentioned that she has a favorite herb that she likes to use during pregnancy so, Lisa do you wanna tell us about that herb?
Lisa Marasco : The herb is called, we call Melange or it is Mulungai, it’s actually Malingo Oliferra and it has a very long tradition in the Philippine culture. That is their goal to herb, actually I shouldn’t say herb I should say plant because it’s a vegetable they eat it, they have a wonderful soup that they make called Tinola. And Tinola is made with a chicken broth, which is considered good for milk production has green papaya which has a strong tradition and it also has the Melange leaves, I call that super lactation soup. I think it’s awesome but because it’s a vegetable and because it has these wonderful milk producing stimulating properties and also there is research behind it which is like the best thing of all. I have more research on Melange in my files than on any other herb, it’s just not in the western literature it is not easy to find and there is one particular study it has not been published but there is a study that was done. They were giving women the last 3 to 4 weeks for pregnancy some Melange and then they stopped it on delivery then they checked the prolactin levels to see if that made a difference and they checked their milk productions overtime. And it was interesting because the prolactin levels were little bit low, little bit lower than the control but it didn’t have it initially but then it quickly switched around and the prolactin levels stayed very elevated and the milk production levels were higher and they sustained after over weeks. And the babies grew more rapidly so, that is impressive and I just, I just feel comfortable because it’s a vegetable you can take it in a little capsule or you can just eat it during the pregnancy. And when we are talking about the amounts that are normal eating amounts that we are not making a dose here but just normal eating amounts, I love it, I love this as a strategy.
[00:20:28]
Robin Kaplan : That’s fantastic and I guess kind of going along so, do you have some favorite lactogenic foods that you typically recommend for moms with low milk supply or even once just wanna support their milk supply?
Lisa Marasco : I do, Barley is one of them, I have heard drink a beer to make more milk. The study looked at that and they discovered it was a polysac right in the barley so, you don’t have to, you don’t have to drink the beer you can just get the barley. There are rest piece on the internet for barley water, you can put barley in soup and you can eat it straight as a grain, barley is really, really good for milk production and has that research behind it. Oatmeal has a very strong reputation here in the U.S, I like oatmeal, Keenvo is another one that and I like Keenvo as well and it’s very, very nutritious. Ironically there is a theme here and it is whole grains.
Robin Kaplan : Whole grains, nutrients.
Lisa Marasco : Yes.
Robin Kaplan : Absolutely, okay thank you. Lisa, what techniques a mother with a previous low milk supply try to maximize her supply with consecutive children? Do you find that milk supply tends to increase with each child?
Lisa Marasco : I think that’s all over the map for some people it increases. The research says and there is a study that looked at this and they said the second time around women almost always made more milk when they did the first time around. So, I think that is worth trying but I also think that it’s worth really thinking forward what can I do to make a difference and the strategy needs to be tailored to what the women situation is as much as she can understand. The basic things are at least after birth you wanna make sure that the baby goes to the breast very quickly, trying to keep that baby at breasts even in their first couple of hours and keeping that closest lots of skin to skin contacts, skin to skin contact really helps to increase prolactin levels just going to help with milk production. And then making sure that we have, you have continued frequency of feeding, there are some women who will be very aggressive and wanna add pumping to that and I don’t push that I think that’s an individual thing because that’s a lot of work but there are some moms that are willing to do that. And that is another really good strategy of idea of just super stimulating the tissue, the one thing it’s really important is that first week of especially is that stage being set. And what happens in that stage you know, for some women they can do everything it still works out really well but for women who has history, your milk making bodies are more fragile you are gonna try and instruct that deck in your favor. And all of these things being on top of these things especially that first week can make the difference; I do know this some women will even try that you know, a galactagogue you know, from that day one as soon as the baby is born they take it to see if they can maximize what happens right from that point.
Robin Kaplan : Okay, I, I know that many of the women that I have worked for in my own practice who have had previously low milk supply are very nervous and apprehensive about trying to breastfeed another child. They have been disappointed the first time around, panelists and ladies what were your feelings towards breastfeeding if you have you know, if you have had another child and then Elizabeth you know, obviously you have not had another child but are you nervous about attempting this one more time?
Elizabeth Pasimio : You know, one of the reasons I just added to be a part of this panelists because it was so traumatizing me about breastfeeding that’s almost I don’t wanna have a child because I don’t wanna do it again. So, let’s not hear it may be feeling empowered like my work next time in case if we have another child so, so yeah there is a lot of apprehension, a lot of probably a little bit of you know, post-traumatic stress is sort of I am here, what you have to say gives me a little bit of help.
Robin Kaplan : Thank you for sharing Elizabeth. Laura, how about you?
Laura Cecil : The second time around I was sort of, I had this fear in my mind you know, it’s not, it’s not gonna work, it’s not gonna work the first time around because a lot of people were telling me it would be different. So, it wasn’t, it was devastating again not that we are going for a third round, I am telling myself not to get my hopes up. I will do whatever I can, I am prepared to be disappointed but you know, I am more I am in a better state of mind and more prepared for it to happen again.
[00:25:05]
Robin Kaplan : I would like to add as well I mean the fact that your second child actually just weaned two weeks ago at 20 months, is that?
Laura Cecil : Almost 20.
Robin Kaplan : Yeah, so even though there was a little milk supply the relationship.
Laura Cecil : It didn’t work out the way that I had planned it but we definitely had a special relationship but I wouldn’t change that for anything.
Robin Kaplan : Yeah, absolutely. Ashley, how about you?
Ashley Baker : Oh! Definitely I think that the emotional stress was there, I have a 4 at the birth of my second baby because I was more afraid of breastfeeding than I was the natural child birth that I had planned. I think it really helped me having a lactation consultant that I had it at that time knowing that I had a support there when my baby was gonna be born and right away. And so, I had a plan and I had people to support me but I definitely feel like my emotional level and the stress level possibly I worried sometimes hinders my milk supply and in the weeks that she doesn’t gain, I freak out and then the weeks that she does I am excited. So, my emotions are up and down like a roller coaster and I know that, that has to affect my body.
Elizabeth Pasimio : And Lisa, I would like to ask you about that you know, I had mentioned post-traumatic stress disorder, I feel like the lot of the women that I see definitely as you had mentioned too Laura, the minute you hit 2 days I was like “Oh! My gosh I am repeating this again” Do you find this can inhibit like Ashley is talking about, the stress can actually inhibit the milk supply as well or it can inhibit everything?
Lisa Marasco : I think that the stress doesn’t help, I think that it makes the things more difficult. I believe in the strength of the body to overcome things that may have stressed, we know that stress can effects on mentally and psychologically. At the same time we are programmed to survive and our body is programmed to overcome that so, on the short term yes it is gonna affect things but you are aware of it too you know, and you are kind of dealing with it psychologically in your mind you know, just okay I am feeling this way. And in fact there are some CD’s have been put out on they are like hypnosis relaxation CD’s just to kind of help moms to relax and get them in that calm frame of mind you know, to overcome that. And there is a research study that shows that the women who listen to those CD’s the more often they listen the more milk they seem to make it was very interesting. But I wanna address Elizabeth because she is still fresh from the trauma of the situation and what I find is moms here that but now I can’t hear from them again and again saying “I never dreamed to have problems in breastfeeding” you know, you just thinking I get through the birth that’s all the risk and your dream is been shattered. And you know, that, that’s really traumatizing that’s really hard to do and I am really glad that you recognized it that it’s post-traumatic stress disorder really is and, and I hope that the people around you take you seriously, I hope that they are listening to you and I hope that they value to agree the loss of that dream that you have had to deal with because that’s what it is. For the future I think you just kind of want to heal a little bit right now but don’t take it off the table for the future I think the important part is you are going to look at your own situation say “what can I do? What can I do for me?” Layout your plan, layout your strategy, put your best effort there but at least more, best effort. I think you know, just have to say I am gonna hope for the best and I am gonna prepare myself for the worst and just you know, let it ride and see what happens and have that support system in place again. But Laura talked about something really important, she talked about the relationship and that’s the thing we tend to think it’s all about the milk and that’s you know, milk production. We are talking about it today but the other half of breastfeeding is the relationship, nobody can take that away from you, you can have that relationship with your baby no matter what happens on how much milk you make. And I would really encourage you to really think about that side of relation put more emphasis on how much milk you make. The milk will be a bonus you know, anything we can do to increase that will be a bonus but enjoy that other part you can so have that.
Robin Kaplan : Thank you. Lisa, what resources would you recommend for mothers who are dealing with chronically little milk supply or any less or known ones that you would like to share as well?
Lisa Marasco : Resources or therapies?
Robin Kaplan : Oh! That’s a good, I guess well may be resource, may be let’s divide it out a little bit. So, resources for example if you have books, websites, other in person things that you think would be helpful and then we can talk about the therapies?
[00:30:04]
Lisa Marasco : So, aside from the book that Dianne and I wrote and basically did because it wasn’t anything out there. I really, I am a fan of Hilary Jacobson’s book “Mother Food” and she also, there is also another website called “Mother’s Ever coming Breastfeeding Issues Moby” and it is full of women who are struggling. Women, who are highly committed, wanna make this work but are also struggling tremendously and with the ups and downs. And they are all in that group together supporting each other and sharing ideas, trying different things and I think that to me having a support group like that whether it’s a virtual online support group or one physically in your town that just so important. But Hilary’s work also on the other lactogenic foods that’s something we disrespect culturally and we need to re respect the differences the Philippino tradition at the Melange and in the Hispanic tradition “Atholi Atholicona Vena” especially which is, it is just a drink with oatmeal, that is president for these things. And there is a reason that they were feeding special foods to the mothers and may be not every single one really works but as I research foods more, more I am starting to realize that there are really is legitimacy to what these cultures are doing. So, I appreciate the work that she has put into her book in bringing those cultural practices forward and kind of sharing those foods with us among other things.
Robin Kaplan : Absolutely and what you had mentioned also is something different types of therapies we talked about Chiropractic and anything else that you would like to add to that list?
Lisa Marasco : Well, there is, it depends on how far you have to go on this one there are different ideas out there one of them you can laugh but sexual activities stimulates Oxytocin, stimulates you know, you get that let down everything that is literally research article to say “Why are we not doing this work?” Now, you get those partners involved, have a little fun may be will stimulate more milk in another way. There is also a very interesting one called Tens, that is Tens is usually used for back or pain management and electrical stimulation. And there was a doctor, Dr. Ruth in the 1860-1880’s who wrote different causes and issues for women not making enough milk and had some very good insights back then. And this was one of the things that he mentioned that couples of women that they did this thing like I said this is really far-fetched and you have to work with somebody on this. But you know, when there is nothing else to go by those are you know, you not, is there anything else, I think those are some interesting ideas.
Robin Kaplan : Fantastic, Lisa thank you so much for your insight into breastfeeding after previous little milk supply and since we just barely touched the surface on this subject you can find much more detailed information in Lisa’s book “The Breastfeeding Mother’s Guide to making More Milk” and on her website https://www.LowMilkSupply.org. And for our Boob Group club members our conversation will continue at the end of the show for more information about our Boob Group club please visit our website at https://www.boobgroup.com.
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[Featured Segments: Ways to overcome societal booby traps]
Robin Kaplan : Before we wrap things up, here is Lara Adello talking about “Ways to overcome Societal Booby Traps.”
Lara Adello : Hi, Boob Group listeners, I am Lara Adello a certified lactation educator, Retail Marketing Manager of “Best for Babes” and owner of “Mama Care Designs.” I am here to answer some of your most common questions by how you can achieve your personal breastfeeding goals without being undermined by cultural and institutional booby traps? How can we plan for a breastfeeding-friendly birth? Why would we do a lot of planning for baby birth? And how much time do we spend thinking about having a birth that sets up well for breastfeeding? First have a Doula or another trained person to support, why because Doulas and labor coaches are skilled at helping you labor with few and inventions possible. If these interventions that can cause breastfeeding problems such as the lesion not coming in, breast edema, sucking problems and excessive weight loss in the baby. Second, learn non-drug, pain relief sprees before in addition to or instead of medications, be sure as you know lots of laboring positions massage technique, acupuncture point, visualization and breathing techniques and use labor tools like birth balls, labor pools and etc. Third and last learn your doctor or midwife’s inductions, C section and epidural ways, if any of these are higher than you are comfortable with check out other options, know the situations of the hospital you planned to deliver as well. A special thank you to Tanya Lieberman, IBCOC for writing the Booby trap series for Best for Babes, visit https://www.bestforbabes.org for more great information about how to meet your personal breastfeeding goals and my business https://www.mamacaredesigns.com for breastfeeding support. And be sure to listen to the Boob Group for fantastic conversations about breastfeeding and breastfeeding support.
Robin Kaplan : Thank you so much to our experts and panelists and to all of our listeners, if you have any questions about today’s show or the topics we discussed call our Boob Group hotline at 619-866-4775 and will answer your question on an upcoming episode. If you have a breastfeeding topic you would like to suggest we would love to hear about it, simply visit our website at the https://www.newmommymedia.com and send us an email through the contact link. Coming up next week we have Lianne Webster discussing “Nutrition and Losing weight while maintaining your milk supply.” Thanks for listening to the Boob Group because “Mothers know breasts.”
[Disclaimer]
This has been a New Mommy Media production. Information and material contained in this episode are presented for educational purposes only. Suggestions and opinions expressed in this episode are not necessarily those of New Mommy Media and should not be considered facts. For such information in which areas are related to be accurate it is not intended to replace or substitute for professional, Medical or advisor care and should not be used for diagnosing any house care problem or disease or prescribing any medications. If you have questions or concerns regarding your physical or mental health or the health of your baby please receive assistance from a qualified health care provider.
[00:36:54] [End Of Audio]
Episode Transcript
The Boob Group
Breastfeeding After Previous Low Milk Supply
Please be advised, this transcription was performed from a company independent of New Mommy Media, LLC. As such, translation was required which may alter the accuracy of the transcription
[00:00:00]
[Theme Music]
Lisa Marasco : When a mother has experienced a chronic milk supply with one of her babies, she may wonder what she can do the next time around to have a greater milk supply. Fortunately, there are many ways were mom can increase her milk supply with subsequent children. I am Lisa Marasco, an International Board Certified Lactation Consultant and co-author of the Breastfeeding Mother’s Guide to Making More Milk. Today we are discussing breastfeeding after a previous low milk supply; this is the Boob Group, Episode 28.
[Theme Music/Intro]
Robin Kaplan : Welcome to the Boob Group, broadcasting from the Birth Education Center of San Diego, I am your host Robin Kaplan. I am also an International Board Certified Lactation Consultant and owner of the San Diego Breastfeeding Center. At the Boob Group we have your online support group for all things related to breastfeeding. Have you joined our brand new Boob Group club? All Boob Group members will get access to all of our hyped episodes, plus bonus interviews, transcripts and special discounts and giveaways from our partners, plus you can interact with all the content through the web or through our free Boob Group app available at Apple iTunes store and Amazon market place. Today I am joined by three lovely panelists in the studio, ladies! Introduce yourselves please.
Ashley Baker : Hi, my name is Ashley, I am a speech pathologist. I have 2 children both girls, one is 2 years old and one is 3 months old.
Laura Cecil : I am Laura, I am 31 years old. I am a stay at home mom to 2 boys aged 4 and 20 months.
Elizabeth Pasimio : I am Elizabeth, I am also 31 years old and I am Master student becoming an Acupuncturist. I have one child and he is almost 8 months old.
Robin Kaplan : Fantastic, thank you for coming to the show ladies!
[Theme Music]
[Featured Segments: News Headlines(Call 1-800-NIP-FREE)]
Robin Kaplan : So, let’s kick off today’s episode with some breastfeeding stories making headlines around the internet in this story and all of them are placed on our Boob Group Pinterest Board, if you would like to check them out. So, something that I found was that there is an organization that we mention them quite often actually called “Best for Babes” and they have a brand new nursing in public hotline. And what they have done is, they have decided to help different states realize how challenging it can be for women to meet their breastfeeding goals when they are having a tough time breastfeeding in public. And so, they set up this hotline where moms who have been victimized through nursing in public incident can call and report the issue to “Best for Babes” and they are hoping that this will you know, if you can record all of them and keep records of them that they can then share these with the law making and people who will hopefully start putting this into practice into their laws. That nursing in public and discriminating against it is actually not constitutional so, ladies! I was just gonna kind of open this up to you what do you think about this hotline and do you think it might be helpful?
Ashley Baker : I think anything that gathers support from other women that are breastfeeding to make it more comfortable for me to go out to a restaurant or sit in a library and be able to nurse my daughter and feel comfortable, would be great.
Robin Kaplan : How about you Laura?
Laura Cecil : I think any support moms can get in breastfeeding no matter where they are, is great.
Robin Kaplan : Absolutely, and the nice thing about is that when you call everything is kept confidential so, it’s not like your names gonna be put out there. And the cool thing also is one of the women who is actually spear heading this is actually Michelle Hickman, who is a Target mom. So, the women who had you know, was kicked out of the Target because she was breastfeeding there so, she is kind of making this mission that she doesn’t want that to happen to anyone else. So, if you are interested in calling about nursing in public hotline for “Best for Babes” their phone number is 855-NIP-FREE so, 855-NIP-FREE, Nursing in Public Free. Alright, well thanks for sharing your opinions ladies and we will right back.
[Theme Music]
Robin Kaplan : So, today on the Boob Group we are discussing breastfeeding after a previous low milk supply, our expert Lisa Marasco is an International Board Certified Lactation Consultant in private practice and with Wick in Santa Barbra, California. She is also the co-author of the Breastfeeding Mother’s Guide to Making More Milk and a contributing author to the co-curriculum for Lactation Consultant. Thanks so much for joining us, Lisa and welcome to the show.
Lisa Marasco : Thank you so much.
Robin Kaplan : So, Lisa if you wouldn’t mind let’s get started with the basics and I realize this is a huge, huge, huge topic to talk in such a short period of time but what do you find are the main reasons why breastfeeding mothers may have a low supply?
[00:05:09]
Lisa Marasco : I think that the main reason that is, that encompasses most of the issues that we face not just women not understanding how the process works, not understanding how to respond to their babies? We live in a predominantly bottle feeding society and we tend to approach our breastfed babies as bottle fed babies. So, I find that women have expectations of how long a baby should sleep, what baby should do? And we have got the fear, our culture is interfering with women being able to respond with your baby saying if I need eat every hour and a half, two hours. If that doesn’t fit a bottle feeding baby paradigm and so, I find women trying to be, trying to make their babies look like the other babies and then in the process by not responding enough, not feeding them enough that probably is the no.1 cause of the low milk production that and the introduction of bottle to swim. There are many women who and I work with are very, very concerned about the babies ability to take a bottle before they go back to work and practically from the time they come home from the hospital that is their concern that the baby takes the bottle. They may also put formula in the bottle not realizing they could put breast milk in the bottle and every time they replace the feeding that way their body is getting less stimulation. So, it’s kind of a management thing really just a misunderstanding of how the process works and sometimes women are unwillingly sabotaging themselves and unfortunately don’t figure out until things start deteriorating a bit.
Robin Kaplan : Yeah and how about for the women who are breastfeeding on their babies cues? Is there a percentage that you may be know who actually clinically are having challenges, bringing in a fuller milk supply based on their anatomy or their hormones and things like that?
Lisa Marasco : I think I need to do a study on this. I get asked these questions so many times and there is only one study that is attempted to address it was done in 1980’s [In Audible(00:07:00)] and colleagues. And in a, I don’t remember this study group is maybe 40, 80 women something like that and they found a 5% insufficient milk rate and that has, that’s the basis of the number that continues to be recorded today but it was a very small population. And probably should check because I suspect that there are more women struggling than we first thought.
Robin Kaplan : Absolutely, ladies and our panel, do you mind sharing when you are able to pinpoint that you had a little milk supply and possibly what caused it if you happened to know that information, Ashley do you mind?
Ashley Baker : With my first daughter she had a poor latch and I had a lot pain and so, I think I had a whole time letting down in getting started really with breastfeeding. So, I really, really breastfed her for few days so, when it came to my second daughter I wasn’t sure how my supply was gonna come in, initially it looked pretty good in about two weeks in, it looked just a tad low. And it’s been there ever since, I have tried lots of different things since then to figure what’s causing this milk supply issue but I have never really pinpointed one thing.
Robin Kaplan : How about you Laura?
Laura Cecil : I was told with both my boys at two days old that they lost much weight and it was that they won’t get enough from breastfeeding and so, it’s pretty early on. And with both of them I never really figured it out why, I tried everything you can imagine to get supply up but nothing ever helped.
Robin Kaplan : Yeah, how about you Elizabeth?
Elizabeth Pasimio : Not exactly, it was complicated situation where it became evident that his latch was poor but my supply seemed okay and then it wasn’t really until 4 to 5 months that I, I realized that I might have insufficient angular tissue. And then it was why the supply was low so, it was I was never really thought it was me or him, I was always trying to figure it out and kind of been on my own in deciding what it was.
Robin Kaplan : Sure, sure. Lisa, when tongue tie and poor latch can be ruled out what are some ways that a mom can increase her supply meaning more so it’s kind of based on what’s going on with her rather than with the baby?
Lisa Marasco : Okay, the No.1 golden rule is increasing frequency in a reasonable manner because I say that because people can take that too far and exhaust themselves. But you have been feeding every two and half, three hours, try every two hours, try during the day time just picking the baby up very, very often and just trying to increase that frequency. That is the No.1 most important thing another thing that women do is pump doing some pose and I often have women pump may be 5 or 10 minutes after each feeding just for additional stimulation. But the answer to that question really depends on what’s going on and with the three women here today there are lot question marks not really understanding is it my body, is it something else. And my assumption today on three of you is that there is something going on with your body and this you may have already tried all these things and this may not address your problem. And then so, galactic logs are something else that can be helpful, I am a fan, a big fan of being very intentional in selecting things knowing as much as I can about what’s going on you know, if it’s the breasts not growing enough during pregnancy things like that I will select specific herbs to fit the properties that may go that direction, that, that’s the next level. Beyond that there are lots of complementary therapies that are worth considering as well including Acupuncture.
[00:10:41]
Robin Kaplan : Yeah, do you have others that you would like to mention as well?
Lisa Marasco : I am kind of exploring the placenta in calculation right now there is this old, old, old research on that you know, the jury is still out on that one but I would like to take you know, just kind of put that in the back of my mind. I am very intrigue with Chiropractic, there have been some cases, I have had a case of a mom whose milk supply was sluggish with her fifth, sixth child and we were dealing with some tongue tie, got that taken care off. I sent her to the Chiropractic but the baby was still not opening wide and he worked on her and turned out and asked her you know, “how are you feeling?” And she said you know, “I have had this back pain since pregnancy” and he worked on her and she went home and she said you know, “Later on that day all of a sudden my milk was coming out better.” And we have been struggling for I don’t know 6 or 8 weeks and all of a sudden there is, that was her thing, there was a problem with the nurse.
Robin Kaplan : Okay, that’s, that’s fascinating because often I will send babies to the Chiropractor but I haven’t really thought of sending the mom to the Chiropractor for that. So, that’s a great advice, Lisa when a women is pregnant are there certain and she has had a previous low milk supply, are there safe herbs that she can take that might help maximize her supply the next time around?
Lisa Marasco : Okay, so the word safe means we studied it and we know for sure and we haven’t studied any of them so, we cannot say for sure. So, the next step is we kind of have to look at how many people around have done this you know, is this something in other cultures they have taken it, nothing bad happened. We can take a look at the herbs and the properties and you know, is there anything about herbs like fenugreek is considered to have a muscle contracting stimulation property. So, we have tend to steer way from fenugreek during pregnancy, some of the herbs that you want the ones being used more now is goats strew and we have no information positive or negative. So, the women who have chosen that because of its angular tissue stimulating properties typically will take it in the last trimester, in the last 2 or 3 months. And modest to suggest when nobody is taking large to suggest and they are monitoring the situation but I do wanna say is we are talking about herbs that it’s really, really important that moms talk with their pregnancy healthcare providers before they dive into this area. Get your healthcare provider on board with you to make the decisions with them that I just think that’s really important, you don’t wanna be doing the stuffs that they don’t know about, you wanna make sure you have somebody monitoring everything. Then herbs like Alpha Alpha is considered to be pretty benign that’s when that I think women can take throughout their pregnancy needs. In fact there is one herbal product on the market that is made to help increase milk during the pregnancy when a women nursing and is made up of herbs that are considered safe for pregnancy and I feel very comfortable for instance that product just taking that might be stimulating and helpful as well.
Robin Kaplan : Wow! That’s a great idea and kind of going a long net too so, a mom who has had a previous low milk supply and now she has had her baby, do you recommend that she starts pumping immediately so that way if the baby and I guess if the baby that you had mentioned the baby is feeding very frequently may be she doesn’t need the pump. But if say the baby is feeding very roughly 8 times in a 24 hour period, do you think that it would be helpful to throw in a couple pumping sessions to help maximize her supply?
Lisa Marasco : Well, I could tell you my co-author Dianna that’s one of the strategies that she uses with the mothers that who are dealing with the reduction surgery and the idea is to super stimulate what you have. It’s not that in the case the baby is doing a good job but you know, babies quit when they are full or when they are tired and the pump, the pump keeps going. So, the idea is just to super, super stimulate what you do have.
Robin Kaplan : Okay, ladies did you do anything I know that there are two women in the panel who have had second children and so, Ashley and Laura did you do anything extra right after your second was born to help bring in a fuller supply or may be during your pregnancy as well?
[00:15:07]
Ashley Baker : I actually when I was pregnant I did some breast massage because I had rather that my help stimulate more growth because I was checking my breast for growth and I didn’t have a lot during pregnancy. I also expressed a little bit of Colostrum may be more out of curiosity to see if it was there and I did try to do some manual expression after my daughter was born as well. But I probably didn’t do the best job at it because I was tired most of the time.
Robin Kaplan : How about you Laura?
Laura Cecil : I didn’t do anything well when I was pregnant may be you know, expressing a little Colostrum same thing out of curiosity if anything was going on. But then after he was born I was definitely more feeding him frequently and he had a good latch too that was sure, he knew it he was doing.
Robin Kaplan : I am glad that you both brought up this expression of Colostrum in pregnancy that’s something we interviewed Dianna actually in our last episode and she had mentioned that. And we didn’t really get to delve into it too much but Lisa, do you find that is helpful and if it is why is it that something that women should kind of think about doing?
Lisa Marasco: I have not possibly able to do that lot with my clients but I know other mothers that have been doing it and Sue Clarke is a Lactation Consultant in Australia, she is the one that really got all the ruling on this. And the idea that just touching the breasts, just using massage, taking some Colostrum out is kind of stimulating the body to make more, to make more kind of get it going even before the baby comes you are not making mature milk but just kind of keeping that flow the Colostrum going. And some people feel that it is helpful there is a culture where is the job, the responsibility of the husband, the partner to cyclize breasts during the pregnancy in that culture they have excellent milk supply. And that’s his job to make sure that she has excellent milk supply so, that strategy is based on that cultural strategy.
Robin Kaplan : Wow!
Lisa Marasco : Now, I do wanna just caution the idea of checking your Colostrum to make sure that you have Colostrum and I totally get that most ironically my daughter, we could not get a drop out of her whole pregnancy and not even could I get a drop out of her after the baby was born but her milk came in normally. So, whether you can express Colostrum physically or not is not the last word on whether you can make milk.
Robin Kaplan : And also the nipple stimulation, if you are at high risk for preterm labor and things like that would you use caution in that as well?
Lisa Marasco : Only if you are at high risk.
Robin Kaplan : Okay.
Lisa Marasco : This is something women are not doing the whole pregnancy they are generally doing it the last month or so and so long you are not forbidden to have sex, you not forbidden to you know, nurse at all or things like that it should not be a big deal. And the bottom line is that if you find that you are triggering going to make contractions you stop, you just stop.
Robin Kaplan : Pay attention to your body.
Lisa Marasco : Yes.
Robin Kaplan : Fantastic, alright when we come back Lisa will discuss some additional ways to maximize your milk supply as well as how emotions and stress comply a role in breast milk supply? We will be right back.
[Theme Music]
Robin Kaplan : Okay and we are back with our expert today, we are talking about breastfeeding after previous little milk supply and our expert Lisa Marasco is here talking about this topic with us. And sol, and during the break Lisa had mentioned that she has a favorite herb that she likes to use during pregnancy so, Lisa do you wanna tell us about that herb?
Lisa Marasco : The herb is called, we call Melange or it is Mulungai, it’s actually Malingo Oliferra and it has a very long tradition in the Philippine culture. That is their goal to herb, actually I shouldn’t say herb I should say plant because it’s a vegetable they eat it, they have a wonderful soup that they make called Tinola. And Tinola is made with a chicken broth, which is considered good for milk production has green papaya which has a strong tradition and it also has the Melange leaves, I call that super lactation soup. I think it’s awesome but because it’s a vegetable and because it has these wonderful milk producing stimulating properties and also there is research behind it which is like the best thing of all. I have more research on Melange in my files than on any other herb, it’s just not in the western literature it is not easy to find and there is one particular study it has not been published but there is a study that was done. They were giving women the last 3 to 4 weeks for pregnancy some Melange and then they stopped it on delivery then they checked the prolactin levels to see if that made a difference and they checked their milk productions overtime. And it was interesting because the prolactin levels were little bit low, little bit lower than the control but it didn’t have it initially but then it quickly switched around and the prolactin levels stayed very elevated and the milk production levels were higher and they sustained after over weeks. And the babies grew more rapidly so, that is impressive and I just, I just feel comfortable because it’s a vegetable you can take it in a little capsule or you can just eat it during the pregnancy. And when we are talking about the amounts that are normal eating amounts that we are not making a dose here but just normal eating amounts, I love it, I love this as a strategy.
[00:20:28]
Robin Kaplan : That’s fantastic and I guess kind of going along so, do you have some favorite lactogenic foods that you typically recommend for moms with low milk supply or even once just wanna support their milk supply?
Lisa Marasco : I do, Barley is one of them, I have heard drink a beer to make more milk. The study looked at that and they discovered it was a polysac right in the barley so, you don’t have to, you don’t have to drink the beer you can just get the barley. There are rest piece on the internet for barley water, you can put barley in soup and you can eat it straight as a grain, barley is really, really good for milk production and has that research behind it. Oatmeal has a very strong reputation here in the U.S, I like oatmeal, Keenvo is another one that and I like Keenvo as well and it’s very, very nutritious. Ironically there is a theme here and it is whole grains.
Robin Kaplan : Whole grains, nutrients.
Lisa Marasco : Yes.
Robin Kaplan : Absolutely, okay thank you. Lisa, what techniques a mother with a previous low milk supply try to maximize her supply with consecutive children? Do you find that milk supply tends to increase with each child?
Lisa Marasco : I think that’s all over the map for some people it increases. The research says and there is a study that looked at this and they said the second time around women almost always made more milk when they did the first time around. So, I think that is worth trying but I also think that it’s worth really thinking forward what can I do to make a difference and the strategy needs to be tailored to what the women situation is as much as she can understand. The basic things are at least after birth you wanna make sure that the baby goes to the breast very quickly, trying to keep that baby at breasts even in their first couple of hours and keeping that closest lots of skin to skin contacts, skin to skin contact really helps to increase prolactin levels just going to help with milk production. And then making sure that we have, you have continued frequency of feeding, there are some women who will be very aggressive and wanna add pumping to that and I don’t push that I think that’s an individual thing because that’s a lot of work but there are some moms that are willing to do that. And that is another really good strategy of idea of just super stimulating the tissue, the one thing it’s really important is that first week of especially is that stage being set. And what happens in that stage you know, for some women they can do everything it still works out really well but for women who has history, your milk making bodies are more fragile you are gonna try and instruct that deck in your favor. And all of these things being on top of these things especially that first week can make the difference; I do know this some women will even try that you know, a galactagogue you know, from that day one as soon as the baby is born they take it to see if they can maximize what happens right from that point.
Robin Kaplan : Okay, I, I know that many of the women that I have worked for in my own practice who have had previously low milk supply are very nervous and apprehensive about trying to breastfeed another child. They have been disappointed the first time around, panelists and ladies what were your feelings towards breastfeeding if you have you know, if you have had another child and then Elizabeth you know, obviously you have not had another child but are you nervous about attempting this one more time?
Elizabeth Pasimio : You know, one of the reasons I just added to be a part of this panelists because it was so traumatizing me about breastfeeding that’s almost I don’t wanna have a child because I don’t wanna do it again. So, let’s not hear it may be feeling empowered like my work next time in case if we have another child so, so yeah there is a lot of apprehension, a lot of probably a little bit of you know, post-traumatic stress is sort of I am here, what you have to say gives me a little bit of help.
Robin Kaplan : Thank you for sharing Elizabeth. Laura, how about you?
Laura Cecil : The second time around I was sort of, I had this fear in my mind you know, it’s not, it’s not gonna work, it’s not gonna work the first time around because a lot of people were telling me it would be different. So, it wasn’t, it was devastating again not that we are going for a third round, I am telling myself not to get my hopes up. I will do whatever I can, I am prepared to be disappointed but you know, I am more I am in a better state of mind and more prepared for it to happen again.
[00:25:05]
Robin Kaplan : I would like to add as well I mean the fact that your second child actually just weaned two weeks ago at 20 months, is that?
Laura Cecil : Almost 20.
Robin Kaplan : Yeah, so even though there was a little milk supply the relationship.
Laura Cecil : It didn’t work out the way that I had planned it but we definitely had a special relationship but I wouldn’t change that for anything.
Robin Kaplan : Yeah, absolutely. Ashley, how about you?
Ashley Baker : Oh! Definitely I think that the emotional stress was there, I have a 4 at the birth of my second baby because I was more afraid of breastfeeding than I was the natural child birth that I had planned. I think it really helped me having a lactation consultant that I had it at that time knowing that I had a support there when my baby was gonna be born and right away. And so, I had a plan and I had people to support me but I definitely feel like my emotional level and the stress level possibly I worried sometimes hinders my milk supply and in the weeks that she doesn’t gain, I freak out and then the weeks that she does I am excited. So, my emotions are up and down like a roller coaster and I know that, that has to affect my body.
Elizabeth Pasimio : And Lisa, I would like to ask you about that you know, I had mentioned post-traumatic stress disorder, I feel like the lot of the women that I see definitely as you had mentioned too Laura, the minute you hit 2 days I was like “Oh! My gosh I am repeating this again” Do you find this can inhibit like Ashley is talking about, the stress can actually inhibit the milk supply as well or it can inhibit everything?
Lisa Marasco : I think that the stress doesn’t help, I think that it makes the things more difficult. I believe in the strength of the body to overcome things that may have stressed, we know that stress can effects on mentally and psychologically. At the same time we are programmed to survive and our body is programmed to overcome that so, on the short term yes it is gonna affect things but you are aware of it too you know, and you are kind of dealing with it psychologically in your mind you know, just okay I am feeling this way. And in fact there are some CD’s have been put out on they are like hypnosis relaxation CD’s just to kind of help moms to relax and get them in that calm frame of mind you know, to overcome that. And there is a research study that shows that the women who listen to those CD’s the more often they listen the more milk they seem to make it was very interesting. But I wanna address Elizabeth because she is still fresh from the trauma of the situation and what I find is moms here that but now I can’t hear from them again and again saying “I never dreamed to have problems in breastfeeding” you know, you just thinking I get through the birth that’s all the risk and your dream is been shattered. And you know, that, that’s really traumatizing that’s really hard to do and I am really glad that you recognized it that it’s post-traumatic stress disorder really is and, and I hope that the people around you take you seriously, I hope that they are listening to you and I hope that they value to agree the loss of that dream that you have had to deal with because that’s what it is. For the future I think you just kind of want to heal a little bit right now but don’t take it off the table for the future I think the important part is you are going to look at your own situation say “what can I do? What can I do for me?” Layout your plan, layout your strategy, put your best effort there but at least more, best effort. I think you know, just have to say I am gonna hope for the best and I am gonna prepare myself for the worst and just you know, let it ride and see what happens and have that support system in place again. But Laura talked about something really important, she talked about the relationship and that’s the thing we tend to think it’s all about the milk and that’s you know, milk production. We are talking about it today but the other half of breastfeeding is the relationship, nobody can take that away from you, you can have that relationship with your baby no matter what happens on how much milk you make. And I would really encourage you to really think about that side of relation put more emphasis on how much milk you make. The milk will be a bonus you know, anything we can do to increase that will be a bonus but enjoy that other part you can so have that.
Robin Kaplan : Thank you. Lisa, what resources would you recommend for mothers who are dealing with chronically little milk supply or any less or known ones that you would like to share as well?
Lisa Marasco : Resources or therapies?
Robin Kaplan : Oh! That’s a good, I guess well may be resource, may be let’s divide it out a little bit. So, resources for example if you have books, websites, other in person things that you think would be helpful and then we can talk about the therapies?
[00:30:04]
Lisa Marasco : So, aside from the book that Dianne and I wrote and basically did because it wasn’t anything out there. I really, I am a fan of Hilary Jacobson’s book “Mother Food” and she also, there is also another website called “Mother’s Ever coming Breastfeeding Issues Moby” and it is full of women who are struggling. Women, who are highly committed, wanna make this work but are also struggling tremendously and with the ups and downs. And they are all in that group together supporting each other and sharing ideas, trying different things and I think that to me having a support group like that whether it’s a virtual online support group or one physically in your town that just so important. But Hilary’s work also on the other lactogenic foods that’s something we disrespect culturally and we need to re respect the differences the Philippino tradition at the Melange and in the Hispanic tradition “Atholi Atholicona Vena” especially which is, it is just a drink with oatmeal, that is president for these things. And there is a reason that they were feeding special foods to the mothers and may be not every single one really works but as I research foods more, more I am starting to realize that there are really is legitimacy to what these cultures are doing. So, I appreciate the work that she has put into her book in bringing those cultural practices forward and kind of sharing those foods with us among other things.
Robin Kaplan : Absolutely and what you had mentioned also is something different types of therapies we talked about Chiropractic and anything else that you would like to add to that list?
Lisa Marasco : Well, there is, it depends on how far you have to go on this one there are different ideas out there one of them you can laugh but sexual activities stimulates Oxytocin, stimulates you know, you get that let down everything that is literally research article to say “Why are we not doing this work?” Now, you get those partners involved, have a little fun may be will stimulate more milk in another way. There is also a very interesting one called Tens, that is Tens is usually used for back or pain management and electrical stimulation. And there was a doctor, Dr. Ruth in the 1860-1880’s who wrote different causes and issues for women not making enough milk and had some very good insights back then. And this was one of the things that he mentioned that couples of women that they did this thing like I said this is really far-fetched and you have to work with somebody on this. But you know, when there is nothing else to go by those are you know, you not, is there anything else, I think those are some interesting ideas.
Robin Kaplan : Fantastic, Lisa thank you so much for your insight into breastfeeding after previous little milk supply and since we just barely touched the surface on this subject you can find much more detailed information in Lisa’s book “The Breastfeeding Mother’s Guide to making More Milk” and on her website https://www.LowMilkSupply.org. And for our Boob Group club members our conversation will continue at the end of the show for more information about our Boob Group club please visit our website at https://www.boobgroup.com.
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[Featured Segments: Ways to overcome societal booby traps]
Robin Kaplan : Before we wrap things up, here is Lara Adello talking about “Ways to overcome Societal Booby Traps.”
Lara Adello : Hi, Boob Group listeners, I am Lara Adello a certified lactation educator, Retail Marketing Manager of “Best for Babes” and owner of “Mama Care Designs.” I am here to answer some of your most common questions by how you can achieve your personal breastfeeding goals without being undermined by cultural and institutional booby traps? How can we plan for a breastfeeding-friendly birth? Why would we do a lot of planning for baby birth? And how much time do we spend thinking about having a birth that sets up well for breastfeeding? First have a Doula or another trained person to support, why because Doulas and labor coaches are skilled at helping you labor with few and inventions possible. If these interventions that can cause breastfeeding problems such as the lesion not coming in, breast edema, sucking problems and excessive weight loss in the baby. Second, learn non-drug, pain relief sprees before in addition to or instead of medications, be sure as you know lots of laboring positions massage technique, acupuncture point, visualization and breathing techniques and use labor tools like birth balls, labor pools and etc. Third and last learn your doctor or midwife’s inductions, C section and epidural ways, if any of these are higher than you are comfortable with check out other options, know the situations of the hospital you planned to deliver as well. A special thank you to Tanya Lieberman, IBCOC for writing the Booby trap series for Best for Babes, visit https://www.bestforbabes.org for more great information about how to meet your personal breastfeeding goals and my business https://www.mamacaredesigns.com for breastfeeding support. And be sure to listen to the Boob Group for fantastic conversations about breastfeeding and breastfeeding support.
Robin Kaplan : Thank you so much to our experts and panelists and to all of our listeners, if you have any questions about today’s show or the topics we discussed call our Boob Group hotline at 619-866-4775 and will answer your question on an upcoming episode. If you have a breastfeeding topic you would like to suggest we would love to hear about it, simply visit our website at the https://www.newmommymedia.com and send us an email through the contact link. Coming up next week we have Lianne Webster discussing “Nutrition and Losing weight while maintaining your milk supply.” Thanks for listening to the Boob Group because “Mothers know breasts.”
[Disclaimer]
This has been a New Mommy Media production. Information and material contained in this episode are presented for educational purposes only. Suggestions and opinions expressed in this episode are not necessarily those of New Mommy Media and should not be considered facts. For such information in which areas are related to be accurate it is not intended to replace or substitute for professional, Medical or advisor care and should not be used for diagnosing any house care problem or disease or prescribing any medications. If you have questions or concerns regarding your physical or mental health or the health of your baby please receive assistance from a qualified health care provider.
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