Whether you choose to breastfeed your baby or formula feed, co-sleep or have your infant in their own room, start your baby on purees or baby led fed, you might be feeling ashamed about your parenting decisions. Today, we are taking a deep dive into shame that you might feel during motherhood and ways to help navigate these feelings.

Thanks for joining us. This is Newbies.

Welcome to Newbies. My name is Kaile Garcia, and I'll be your host today. If you haven't already, be sure to visit our website at newmommymedia.com- and subscribe to our weekly newsletter, which keeps you updated on all the episodes we release each week. Another great way to stay updated is to hit that subscribe button in your podcast app.

We have an expert today, Renee Brna. Renee is a clinical therapist in training in the Marriage and Family Therapy program at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas. Her work focuses on parental wellbeing, burnout, and mindfulness informed approaches to supporting families. Renee is a contributing author to the book, "A Happy Healthy Mom," which is a comprehensive guide to restoring a mom's health physically, physiologically, and during the early parenting years.

Renee, thank you for joining us. Tell us where you're located. I know you said Nevada, Las Vegas, and who is part of your family.

Oh, thank you so much for having me. Yeah, I'm in Las Vegas, Nevada, and I am married to my husband, and we have two kids who are in elementary school.

Fun. I love it. You are one of the wise moms that have been through the trenches and can help- Yes

us moms who have the toddlers and the new babies and the under one-year-olds who are like, "It gets better. Trust me. You'll sleep again." It does get better. It

does. I

do promise that. Oh, I love it. Well, I'm excited for our topic today. There's definitely a lot going on as far as shame in motherhood and even parenting decisions, so we will get into all of that after our break.

Welcome back. Today, we're discussing working through shame with motherhood. So first I want to hear your experience. I love that your kids are just a little bit older. But your experience with motherhood, specifically those zero to one years, right? So there's a lot of decisions moms get thrown into.

How are you gonna feed your baby? Where are they going to sleep? Even just, like, when are they going to get vaccines, or if they're not gonna get vaccines, or even if, are they gonna be put in daycare? Are you gonna be a stay-at-home mom? So I want to get a vibe of where you were at when you welcomed your first.

Yes. Even as you're saying that, I'm, like, getting PTSD from all of the- ... decision making that had to be done with really limited knowledge. And I just say, I really hadn't spent, outside of babysitting a little bit as a teenager, I hadn't spent that much time around kids before becoming a mom.

I, being a nerdy type, I read all the books and took the classes, and I figured, "Oh, I can, I can figure this out. It's the most natural thing," right? Easy. Be a mom, whatever. Everyone does it. And I had-- I would say that the thing that surprised me the most was that my identity would be so shattered- and I'd have to figure out how to pick up the pieces, and doing that on not enough sleep, right? Yes.

Yeah. So yeah. I,

I just to say it's, there's just so many decisions, but it's also you're brand new at it, so you're going to make mistakes, and you're gonna do things and then have to figure it out and go, "Oh, wait.

That's-- Maybe I wanna do it differently than that."

Absolutely. One thing I love about interviewing mothers specifically is everyone's story is completely different. We all can relate in different aspects. I chose to breastfeed my girls, so I, relate to a lot of breastfeeding mothers. However, I resonated with what you said.

I was not around any babies growing up. My first diaper I changed was my three-year-old's, yes. When she first came out. I just never babysat babies, like young kids. And so when you get thrown into the thick of it, of "Okay, your baby's here. Are they gonna get," the eye ointment?

Yes. It's like within hours you're making decisions, and then there could be some shame, contributed to that. So I love that you said you read the books. For new mothers who are first, overwhelmed, maybe aren't happy with some of their decisions they made early on. For example, maybe they chose to co-sleep, right?

And then- ... they realized it wasn't working for them after the first month. What are some ways that they can get over the initial shame for their past decisions?

Oh, yeah. That's such a good question. I think, really the antidote to shame is self-compassion, right?

Really embracing our shared humanity and that so many moms are going through the same thing. You really are not alone. And half of the moms are doing it one way, and half of the moms are doing it another way, right? We're all parenting differently. So it's totally okay that you tried something, and then maybe you read something that said, "Oh, that was horrible."

"Why did you do that?" "You're gonna wreck your baby for the rest of their li-" Like that, right? That's the messaging that we're getting as moms constantly. It's like, how are you... We know how important the years zero to three are for- ... setting kids up for life, right? But it puts this huge weight on our shoulders, and that's how we just get just tr- tamped down to the ground because it's like, "Oh, wow, if I don't do this right-" Then my kid's gonna be messed up for life, which really the only thing your baby needs from you, truly, is warm and responsive caregiving.

That's it. It-- Really, that's for secure attachment, for all of these amazing things that happen later in life they just need a warm and responsive caregiver, which starts with you offering yourself some grace and some self-compassion.

Oh gosh, I love that. And honestly, I have a seven-month-old, I needed to hear that.

Good. Yeah. Even myself as a second time around, you forget too that, ah, everything ne- feels, so urgent, right? Like we need to- Yeah ... I don't know, baby turns six months, and now we need to feed, purees or solids or baby-led weaning or whatever the choice is, and I feel like everything's so urgent, and I love that you just said, kinda to take a step back.

Your baby just- Yeah ... needs love and cuddles. Yeah. And- A warm place.

Yeah. It's hard to do when you're so busy and you're tired, and- yeah ... most moms aren't getting the nutrition they need and we put our babies first it's really hard to take care of ourselves, especially with the mental labor too of all the- decision-making. So it's easy for me to even look back and be like, "Yeah," "Be compassionate for yourself." But at the same time- ... it feels like, is that another thing that I put on my list? Oh no I wasn't compassionate for myself enough today. I'm gonna... And today I wasn't a warm and responsive caregiver.

Today I snapped, today I had to put my baby in their crib and walk away for a couple minutes to cry. Did I ruin them? No, you didn't. You needed a moment so that you could come back and return in a safe way. It's okay.

Oh, I love that so much. I guess my last question really before, 'cause we're gonna do another part, but jumping ahead, before we get into some techniques, what are some topics that you hear, even if you can bring it up throughout the book, we're gonna mention later, but what are some techniques to get over these big taboo decisions like breastfeeding, formula feeding, baby-led weaning?

What are some ways for a mom to kinda reel back the shame and just look at themselves and be confident in their, motherhood, parenting decisions? I'll know, for me at least, is trusting my gut. I'm one of those- ... woo-woo girls who love to trust a gut. If I get a good vibe, I'm going with it.

And so for me, that really worked with a lot of my parenting decisions. But what are some techniques that you can touch on to, give some of our listeners, especially with the big ones, a peace of mind sometimes?

Yeah. We could talk about so many different decisions that have shame around them.

Most of them, I would say do, the decisions you have to make. So first off, being aware that this is also socially constructed. We're living in a social construct where mothers are- held responsible for most of these decisions to be made, and we are shamed socially. It really is, it's not you. You're not the problem. You're living in a social construct that does this. So there's that, just to take like a bird's-eye view. And then the other thing is that, shame really lives in and breeds in silence and secrecy. So I would say if you can get out with another, with a friend or someone that you feel like you can connect to and you can tell them your troubles and they can meet you with empathy and non-judgment that's, wow, like that's a, the big, the, probably the biggest technique for reducing the charge that shame has.

Oh, I love that so much. And I will, I'll touch on a personal story too. My first, love her to death, but she never slept. She just didn't. She was not a sleeper. And so when I would have older generations, who I honestly think just forget how babies sleep, would say like- Yeah ... "That's weird that they're not sleeping through the night," or yada, you know? I would, I have a really good friend who her daughter, who was born two months later than mine, was also not a good sleeper. And so we really bonded over our daughters not sleeping and how it was really hard. And whether we chose to co-sleep or even bounce at 2:00 in the morning for, you know- Yep

three, f- four hours, rather than just let them be in their crib or bassinet, it was nice to have someone, like you mentioned, that resonated with it and agreed, with the parenting decisions. We were right on the same idea and wavelength. And so that was really great to have that to bounce off of, because sometimes you just need someone to not vent per se, but just I guess explain yourself, 'cause I wasn't venting. I love my daughter and I look back and cherish those moments too 'cause it made both of us stronger and connect more. Who doesn't want snuggles at 2:00 a.m., Yeah. For hours. Yeah. I mean- But it's nice that, yeah, we got that moment, and then I had a friend who was going through the same thing.

Yes. And you know what? It's okay to vent too. It's okay to love your baby and then really need to go and have a cry or, or- Yeah ... scream and yell with your friend. That's okay. I don't know where we got this I really don't, this idea that motherhood is just this blissful, wonderful thing that you're always meant to experience joy and, oh, you might just not sleep a little bit.

It- yeah ... I don't know where we got that. It's it's hard. It's hard work. And I would like to point out one of the places where a lot of shame comes up is Kids are like mirrors. They almost mirror everything that we shove down, repress- put, put away- ... locked in a closet somewhere.

I don't know what it is, but the kids just, they mirror it to us, so we are forced to, while we are our most tired, our most worn out, our most depleted, we're forced to also look to some of our darkest stuff and have to heal ourselves while parenting our babies. It's a lot of emotional labor.

Gosh, don't you just love it? Very

fun. But it's still worth it, right?

It's totally worth it. I love this. I'm excited. We're gonna take a quick break, and then when we jump back, we're gonna talk about social media. Welcome back. We are continuing our conversation with Renee. I teased before the break, we're talking about social media and shame.

And I will say, with my first, yes, that definitely got me with, I mentioned earlier, I was up all the time throughout the night with her, breastfeeding her and trying to get her to sleep. I was on Instagram and TikTok constantly. With my second, who's now around seven months, no. I feel very confident and so I have a very different motherhood experience.

But also, that could just come from experience, right? I've had one. I have a second. And so I know with my first, it really drained me because I was constantly comparing myself. Like- ... oh by six months, their baby's sleeping in their crib by themselves for 12 hours a night, from 7:00 to 7:00. Which my three-year-old still does not do. For those listening, it's okay. Or, oh, my nine-month-old is already, taking their first steps. And so all of that it's very, I could feel mothers get trapped. Let's talk a little bit, dive deep into social media, and what are some helpful tips you have to help mothers not feel so shameful or ashamed, really, about their parenting decisions?

Yeah. Yeah. I think, again I always think it's useful to just take the, to zoom out a little bit and look at what social media is, okay? It's a platform. They're all platforms, right? And they have this brilliant business plan to show you what you're missing and how you are inadequate, and then to advertise products to you to buy.

They've created the problem and the solution to create as much money as possible. Here you are, you're stuck alone, you're behind a screen. You're, maybe you're b- bouncing your baby on a ball, or y- they're sleeping in your arms, right? And you're not getting up 'cause you just don't wanna wake them up.

And you've got the phone in your hand, and you're sitting here, and you're, you're scrolling, right? And it gives us some... I wanna also say one of the reasons we're on it is because there is a lot of fun content out there by influencers that are showing maybe the messy side or- ... the the harder sides of motherhood, and that does make us feel a little bit validated and connected.

But really- The most the most of the content is just making you feel like you're not enough, right? Because there's also all of the influencers that are showing you a beautiful way to parent, right? A, a perfectly curated way to parent. And then if you just buy for $19.99, this item, you could be a perfect parent too.

I think it's interesting, too, when it's and I still fall for the influencers who give their day plans or "Come with me from 8:00 AM to 12:00 PM." I'm like, "What? I wanna see what they do. They have four kids, how do they navigate breakfast, drop-off, and all that stuff?"

And it looks so easy. And I'm over- Yeah ... here like cooking eggs like, what? That is so insane. I love that you said that, though. Yeah, they do, they show the good parts. But then I do the realness of it, too. I know for me, I really struggled with breastfeeding my first. It was bad latch, first time breastfeed, like all of it- Yes

combined, and so that was really helpful. There is a positive side to social media, for sure, because I would, follow these lactation consulting accounts and nursing accounts, and I got a lot of good information. And then you read the comments and you kinda feel, you feel like you're part of a village, a community of women who are going through the same thing, right?

And so I guess- Yeah ... jumping into my next question, what are some techniques, that moms can use to kinda help them navigate their shame? And I don't know, we can be specific or not, but for instance, maybe, breastfeeding or formula feeding. I feel like on both sides, the Fed Is Best campaign is amazing, and I feel like- Yeah

wherever you land on it, you will find your people, yeah.

Yeah, for sure. I think, what you're saying is there is information out there that, we in the past generations, you might have had to go to a library and scour books- ... to try to figure it out.

I just wanna point out that we can find this information on social media, but there's a few things. Like one, we may not find correct information. The other thing is we may not be like calling a professional, like right? You can get a lactation consultant or you can get a nutritionist or work with, or call your OBGYN.

A lot of people don't know, too, that they can call their- ... providers 'cause they're worried they're gonna bother them. But that's what they're there for, is to answer questions. So this is the double-edged sword of social media. Like on one hand, you can get the information, and on the other hand, it's stopping you from reaching out and connecting with people in real life.

And- Yes ... that, right? That's part of what we need as humans to like co-regulate. Like we actually need to be in the room with other nervous systems and like co-regulating with them, and that's more powerful than actually being alone kind of flipping through content. So I would say one of the things is to really, if you are enjoying the content, to find a way to limit your time.

... On the platforms.

I so agree. I had to actually recently do that because I'm a big reader. I'm a big Kindle reader. It's like my safe place. I love it. I love escaping into fairy worlds, honestly- Oh, nice ... while my kids are napping. However, I noticed that my screen time would be super high, not from my Kindle app, but from Instagram and Facebook.

So I love that you can totally put caps on it. Yes ... because it does, it makes a hu- at least for me, it makes a huge difference. I love that you were answering questions to gear up for my next question. I guess my next question really is when should moms reach out to an expert? You kind of-- I love that you mentioned that you can call your OB because yes, absolutely, especially if you're still in that early postpartum period before the checkup, even after the checkup by a few months.

D- honestly- Yes ... whenever, but s-specifically, during that postpartum depression, anxiety period that can pop up honestly any time within the first year of having your baby. I love that you said, call your OB, ask questions. That is what they're there for. But when else, should moms, reach out for an expert?

Maybe the shame you're feeling could be postpartum depression, right? Or postpartum anxiety, and yes, it is. You feel ashamed of some actions, but it could be deeper. Sonya- Yeah ... what is your advice for moms who, maybe we should be reaching out to an expert besides talking to your partner,

yeah. Yeah. So like you mentioned, the first year after birth, you can experience postpartum depression. So signs of that would be, like, having at least two weeks of persistent sadness w- emotional, emotions that are difficult that start worsening they start becoming more intense.

That's also a cl- a clue. Having bonding issues with your baby trouble with daily tasks, maybe eating or caring for yourself, sleeping when the baby sleeps, right? And any behavior changes, like you notice you're really withdrawing from your partner or your family or your friends, and then, of course, safety concerns.

So- ... if you're worried you're gonna harm yourself or your baby or a lot of times for postpartum depression, it shows up as, like- A, a deep anxiety and fear that something bad's gonna happen, and it might, or something bad might happen to your baby. So that, those are definitely some signs that you should c- contact at least your OBGYN, or your pediatrician can help with this too at the checkup.

You should let a pediatrician know when you're feeling the signs of this 'cause they're trained to help with this too. And of course mental health providers. But I also just wanna point out in the book that I have coming out, "Happy Healthy Mom," we talk about depleted mother syndrome, which is- even beyond the postpartum year. Women will find after, especially after having multiple children or having kids a little older or extended breastfeeding, things like that, that their body and their mind, and even their relationships are stressed and depleted. So there are reasons to be reaching out to your provider even beyond the first year postpartum, because we just get really drained, and there's so little time to replenish that you can really even have a hard time down the line.

So don't be afraid to reach out to a provider just because you don't think it's postpartum depression.

You are just full of advice. I'm so excited. This is why I love doing this, honestly because I myself learn so much. I, Yeah, I went from, I didn't do two under two, thank goodness, but my girls are two and a half years apart, and I never stopped breastfeeding.

I breastfed my daughter- Yes ... till she was two and a half, and then it started to get painful. And so like I had a two-month break, and then I popped out another baby, and so this is so helpful. Anyway, we'll talk more about the book. Let's take one of our last quick breaks, and then we'll jump back into it.

Welcome back to "Newbies." We are continuing our topic, so I really wanna talk about the book you have coming out. When will it be available? Tell us a quick synopsis of it and how, and like what type of mom should get their hands on it. W- will it be a good, I don't know, like a baby shower gift is what I think.

I love giving books for gifts at baby showers.

Nice. But anyway, tell us about the book. Oh, yeah. That's a great idea. Yeah. It's called "A Happy Healthy Mom." So it's basically a comprehensive guide that's gonna help you restore your health both physically, psychologically, and it's got tips for also your relationship.

And it's basically meant for moms who are parenting in the early years of- ... their child's life. It's gonna be available wherever books are sold in August. August 25th is when it's coming out. And yeah, it's just it's really I would say the main, It's for any parent really, but for, I would say bio moms because there's a lot on the physical side- in terms of restoring your physical health after giving birth. But I would say the relational advice and the psychological advice could go for any mom. So even if you're adopting or you're doing you've got a surrogate or whatever, there's so many ways to become a parent these days.

I love that. Yay. Tell us more about how if anyone is local, are you accepting clients at all to the Las Vegas area? Where can our listeners, if they are in that area, work with you, and how can they keep in contact with you and get updates on the book?

Oh, yeah. They can go to my website, which is www.reneeberna.com.

I think you're gonna have it in your, on your page. Yes. And yeah, I do. I see individuals, couples, and families and provide therapy at a place called Las Vegas Therapy here in Las Vegas, Nevada. So I am accepting new

clients. Yeah. Yay. How exciting. Awesome. Yay. Thank you so much for joining.

I loved this episode. I love talking about motherhood. It's my favorite thing, honestly. Yeah. And I love talking about the good. I- it's the saying, right? The good, the bad. It's not really bad. It's just, for me, it's just all learning experiences. I'm like: Wow, no one's told me that to heads up for, and so I love talking about it all, and I feel like so many of our listeners will definitely resonate with this episode, so thank you.

Thank you so much for having me. It's been great.

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