Whether you are a week postpartum, one month, or one year, sleep is so important to new mothers for their mental health, healing, and mood. Today we are talking about the mamas and how they can get a good sleep routine. Thanks for joining us. This is Newbies.

 Welcome to Newbies. My name is Kaile Garcia, and I'll be your host today. If you haven't already, be sure to visit our website at newmomymedia.com and subscribe to our weekly newsletter, which keeps you updated on all the episodes we release each week. Another great way to stay updated is to hit that subscribe button in your podcast app.

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Our expert today is Carissa Gustafson. She is a licensed clinical psychologist specializing in perinatal mental health, pregnancy, and reproductive loss, and the transition to parenthood.

As both a psychologist and a mother, she brings professional expertise and personal understanding to this work. Yes, we love moms. Please tell us about your family and where you are located. Hi. So I am located in the Los Angeles area, and I have two girls, a two-year-old and an almost five-year-old. Oh, perfect.

That's like my girls. I have- Aw. What's their age gap? Is it three years or more like two and a half? It's, it's closer to two and a half. Oh, fu- same. Yeah. I have a March baby and a September baby, and they are literally two and a half years apart. Yeah ... which is fun. It's, that's a fun age group. I didn't want to do the two under two.

Yeah. I wanted more of, like, the three-year age gap, but we got two and a half, and I'm happy with it. That's a good age gap. Yay. Well, we will definitely dive into today's topic, but first, let's take a quick break. Welcome back. Today, we're discussing sleep tips for new mamas. So for our listeners, I want them to get a picture of who you are.

Tell us about your journey becoming a mom, pregnancy, birth. How was it? And we love experienced mamas, too. So how had it shifted from, you know, welcoming your first to welcoming your second? So first question, how was your pregnancies? Yeah. So my first pregnancy I got pregnant, you know, within a few months, and things went well up until pr- close to kind of, like, the third trimester.

Ended up getting gestational diabetes, which was a shock and a big learning curve. And then I did have something of a complicated, difficult, traumatic birth with my first. Aw. She had a nuchal cord, meaning that it was wrapped around her neck and body, and she was also breech. Oh. So we were planning to do a C-section anyways but she, you know, for people that have had higher risk pregnancies that are listening, they might be familiar with, like, non-stress tests.

We were going in- Mm-hmm ... a lot for the non-stress tests 'cause she wasn't very active, which was concerning. She wasn't doing very well. We ended up doing, I kind of call it, like, an urgent, if not emergent, kind of C-section because she wasn't doing very well, and that really changed my relationship with pregnancy, having kind of gone through that.

Mm-hmm. It made me feel very scared, right? Like with- Yeah ... this idea that she could be, like, in my body but not safe in my body. Yes. As I went on to have another baby, and in between my two daughters, I also experienced a series of pregnancy losses, which is- Mm-hmm ... one of the big things that brought me to kind of specialize in, you know, maternal mental health so I experienced a series of pregnancy losses before then going on to have my second daughter, but that pregnancy was more difficult, kind of emotionally, just kind of like, having had the losses, and then also the traumatic birth.

And so for me, for, in that pregnancy, I really didn't feel safe until she was, like, here, you know? And, like, out of my body. But she did make it here, and actually arrived basically the same time that we experienced kind of one of the, the m- major kind of pregnancy loss that we had. So, I'm very grateful to have my rainbow baby.

Aw, that's so special. And I can imagine. I had a very smooth, I would guess, I would say, labor. But with pregnancy, I had HG, so I was very- Yeah. Love ... very sick with both my pregnancies. Yeah. And I can imagine that, you know, overall, it gave me a different perspective with my first on, like, feeling like she wasn't safe in my body because I wasn't feeding myself because I couldn't.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's very difficult. Yeah. And so I can totally relate to you on that front, and then that changes when you have your baby earth side, right? It changes- Right ... the mentality of, like, I prayed over you, I wanted you, you know, I tried really hard. I like, you know, fought my body for you.

Yeah. And then the relationship with sleep, right? Because it's such a mind game. Uh-huh. Here you are, you know, hoping that your baby is going to be okay, and then they come and everything's fine, you know, for the most part, and then the sleep happens, right? Yeah. And so I feel like it goes hand in hand, honestly, of just the mental mind games back and forth.

So I guess jumping into the next question, once you had your first, or even your second did you struggle getting sleep postpartum? I feel like let's jump in with the first, honestly, 'cause I, I'm sure the answer is different. But with your first, did you struggle getting sleep postpartum? Sure. And not, we have episodes on baby sleep.

Obviously you can touch on that. But specifically for yourself, you know? Once baby was sleeping better, were you sleeping better? I wanna know your personal experience with that. Yeah. I think sleep is, like, a, a major kind of topic for me postpartum because it does play such a big role in regulating our mood.

Mm-hmm. And it's very difficult postpartum, right? And, like, people kind of, and, and this is, like, one of the things that bothers me, people have this idea that, like, postpartum depression for example, is, like, just something that's hormonally driven. And, like, while hormones can play a factor, actually sleep plays a big factor.

And people don't seem to have that same kind of understanding or awareness. But one of the biggest things that you can do to protect your mental health postpartum is to try to prioritize sleep and to try to get what they call anchor sleep, which is Like four hours of consecutive sleep. The, the issue with that is that that can be hard to come by postpartum, especially with a newborn if you're breastfeeding.

And so one of the things that I really work with people on, especially people that are susceptible, you know, have risk factors and things like that, maybe a past mood or anxiety disorder, is like what is your plan for sleep? And not a plan for the baby, but like a plan for you and your sleep, and are you having, you know, if you have the resources, like , a night nanny, or are you and your husband gonna take shifts?

Or is there, you know, family that can help? Because I remember, right, like in preparing for my first, taking like a breastfeeding class and hearing that, "Oh, your baby's going to nurse approximately every two hours, like 24/7," right? But like you can hear that and understand that kind of conceptually, but hopefully, right, you've never had the experience where-

You are only, you know, sleeping in 90-minute increments, you know, 24/7 for weeks or months on end and experiencing the, the impacts of that, you know? But sleep plays such a big role in regulating our mood, and it's one of the most important things I think that moms can try to prioritize with as a way of protecting their, their mental health.

Absolutely. And so when you work with clients, what are some common struggles new moms face when trying to get good sleep? So obviously I can imagine the colic, right? Colicky baby is very difficult, and also breastfeeding struggles. Yeah. That was me my first time around. I was waking up- Yeah ... every two hours around the clock for at least four months.

And so what are some other common struggles that new mom face that you've seen firsthand? Yeah. I, I think it's really the tension between kind of sleep and feeding, right? Mm-hmm. So like, if you are, you know, exclusively breastfeeding, and if you don't want to introduce a bottle until a, until that's been well-established, then it really puts a lot of pressure on Mom, and it's gonna have the biggest You know, impact on mom's sleep.

So mom needs to be really supported. And, you know, that could be that dad is doing everything else at night, right? Including maybe like bringing the baby to mom for feedings, or maybe it's a, a night nurse or something like that. But that mom is being supported as much as possible , it's really important.

But for some people, you know, like it's gonna have such a big impact that maybe breastfeeding, you know, doesn't make sense, or they wanna... You know, maybe they're gonna pump and introduce a bottle earlier. Or, if mom is especially at high risk, right? Like, and there's lots of medications that you can be on and still breastfeed.

But for certain kinds of conditions, like, you know, if there's bipolar disorder or anything that might give rise to concerns about kind of like a s- episode of psychosis, things like that, like mom's sleep is number one priority. And so maybe it just means that like mom is protected in terms of sleep and on medications that she needs to be on, and formula is how we're feeding baby, and that's, that's how the family's gonna function.

That is so important, and I love that you touched on mental health too, right? Because yes, I feel like-- And have you noticed anything, like, during pregnancy, does mental health concerns become more clear, or do people get diagnosed during pregnancy- Sure ... postpartum? Is that-- I feel like maybe because there's so many appointments, basically, is what I'm hinting at.

You have so many appointments in pregnancy, and so maybe you're more open to talk to your OB, you know, who can basically tell you, like, "Yes, talk to your PCP." You know what I mean? So is that pretty common to happen during pregnancy and postpartum? Yeah. It's a, so, like, postpartum or perinatal, and perinatal, if people are not familiar, it means pregnancy and postpartum.

So- Oh, nice. Yes ... it's during that period of time. And yeah, perinatal mood and anxiety disorders are actually the number one complication of pregnancy. Hmm. So it affects, like, you know, some people will say, like, one in five or one in seven women. And also, it does not just affect moms, right?

Because it is not just kind of like a purely hormonal kind of phenomenon. Whenever we're talking about mental health, we're, we're talking about biological factors, psychological factors social factors too. And during the perinatal period, all of those areas are being, you know, disrupted, right? Your sleep is disrupted.

You're experiencing major changes in your roles and responsibility. And then, of course, we also have kind of, you know, the hormonal changes and the brain changes. So it's, it is a very vulnerable period, and that's one of the reasons that protecting sleep is really important for things like postpartum depression, or certainly if there's a risk factor for kind of, you know, more severe kind of perinatal mood and anxiety disorders.

And anxiety is another one, and it's- Mm-hmm ... you know, new moms are gonna have some anxiety, or even, you know, experienced moms are gonna have some anxiety. But if you're not able to sleep, even when the baby is sleeping, because of anxiety, that definitely warrants attention and getting support, right? So that you can feel safe enough to sleep, because you really do need to be sleeping in order for your mood to regulate.

I so agree with that, and that kind of jumps into my next question is why is it so important for hormones, specifically at night, to relax? And I know you're supposed to put your phone down, right? Not binge-watch Netflix. Yeah. You're supposed to really have a calming environment. That way it helps, you know, your brain to tell itself, "Hey, it's time to go to sleep."

But on your end, why is it so important to relax? And then if women can't relax at night, what would you suggest to them? If they are in that fight or flight, you kind of mentioned if baby's sleeping and you're not sleeping, that's kind of a red flag. But what are some other things that you would mention?

Yeah. If, if anxiety is interfering, right, in your ability to, like, sleep or if it's causing significant distress, if it's, you know, interfering in your ability to function, that's the time to get connected to support, like medication, like therapy. And I'm a big fan of being really proactive with that stuff, so, you know, don't wait till you get to that point to, like, try to find people to connect with.

I really think it's wonderful because it is such a vulnerable time with, you know, the, the physiological kind of changes in terms of hormone and the brain changes and the changes to your life and the sleep deprivation and all of that, to be proactive about getting support. Even if you just, you know, kind of like touch base with somebody and establish care with a therapist or if you know that you have a history or risk factors for perinatal mood and anxiety disorders, like a history of depression or anxiety or trauma or other kinds of stressors to get connected to care kind of proactively instead of waiting till it gets to that, that kind of point.

'Cause the last thing that you want is to be experiencing, you know, a high level of distress and then have to kind of figure out where to go. Ideally, you kind of have support, know where to go maybe you've touched base with somebody or maybe you're a- you know, already taking medication if you're at risk and it doesn't have to get to that point I think that's so important because I can definitely imagine the late nights of sleep deprivation and my husband snoring next to me.

And it just, it gets really isolating, definitely, and I think you put it perfectly. You, I know it'd be harder to ask for help, you know, once it's down the line and it's been a few weeks and you're like, "It's not getting better." Anyway, we'll jump- Yeah ... into more questions, but first let's take a quick break.

Welcome back. We are continuing our topic, so let's chat a little bit. You've dropped so much important information. Let's talk about working with you. How can you help assist new moms who are struggling with quality sleep? I guess, what would be your guidelines, your, you know, how to? What would you suggest for those- Yep

who want to work with you? So I actually have available on my website a free postpartum guide- Ooh, nice ... for moms, and anybody can hop on and download that. Like I said, it's for free, and it talks about ways of protecting your mental health postpartum. So everybody, you know, has like kind of like a birth plan and that kind of thing, but I really am a big fan of having a postpartum plan.

And the very first topic that I cover is sleep, because it is such a big factor when it comes to regulating your mood, and such a big factor when it comes to kind of like mood and anxiety disorders. It, so you really do want to create a sleep plan, and that's one of the many things that I walk you through in that postpartum kind of guide or workbook.

So I would encourage people to definitely do that And then I also have on my website an online course for parents. It's kind of based on my book, Reclaim Your Life: Acceptance and Commitment Therapy in Seven Weeks. But the course is Reclaim Your Life After Birth. And so it specifically walks, you know, parents who are pregnant, postpartum new in kind of the parenting space through the processes in acceptance and commitment therapy to help support their mental health.

And then of course, I also offer individual therapy, and if you're interested in working with me one-on-one, you can fill out the contact form and get in touch with me. I, I love that so much. I love all of the guides you have out. I feel like that's so helpful for the moms who are not sleeping, right?

Because you're already up at 11:00 PM to 1:00 AM to 3:00 AM. Yeah. You know? So you're already doom scrolling or researching whatever it is.

Just to touch on anxiety a little bit, 'cause I do think it is so important and I do think, like I said, like all new parents are gonna experience some anxiety, but if it's causing a lot of distress, if it's interfering in your functioning, if you're not able to sleep as a result of it, even when your baby's sleeping, if you're feeling constantly in a state of kind of, you know, hypervigilance and hyperarousal that's not helpful for you and it's not helpful for your baby.

It's not keeping them safe. We don't wanna be doom scrolling and that kind of thing. We want to really adopt a present-focused and action-oriented approach. So of course, you know, practicing safe sleep and those kinds of things. But Focusing really on, like, what's in your control and not getting lost in kind of future fears or imagined fears or doing the kind of doom scrolling that you talked about that really just amplifies those imagined kind of fears.

I would say yes. Yeah. I actually got back into reading after my first- Mm-hmm ... because I didn't, I wanted to stop doom scrolling, right? And so I would put the caps on my phone for, like, Instagram, Facebook. I was never really a big TikTok person, probably because I'm an older millennial. But, you know- So I never got into TikTok, but I would actually switch to Kindle.

So I had an iPad, right? I switched to the Kindle app, and I actually started reading. And I, and I, since welcoming my second, I love it. I hit my book goals. It makes me sleepy. You know, I, I just- Mm-hmm ... that's what I've switched to, and I've loved it. Speaking of what I've switched to, what would be your tips for getting into the mindset of creating, like, maybe a sleep routine?

We talk about that so much with babies, right? And not even babies- Yeah ... like newborns, babies, toddlers, right? Children, back to school sleep routine. But I feel like I've never really talked about it as, like, a mom, you know? Like- Yeah, I think it's important. It is. Yeah. For sure. So what would be your tips for, like- Yeah

creating a good sleep routine for a mom? And obviously in the different cycles, right? A newborn's way different than the- Yeah ... four-month sleep regression, than the year old. But in general, what would be your tips? Totally. Yeah. I mean, it's so funny, 'cause I feel like so much of what is true for babies is true for, like, adults when it comes- Yes.

to, you know, like, just, like, these kinds of practices, right? But, like, yes, you absolutely want, like, a wind-down routine. Generally they, they say that should be an hour, right? Mm-hmm. Where you're, you know, staying away from screens, you're doing activities and, and it's, like, a consistent routine, right? And you probably already have something of a routine that you're doing.

But, you know, brushing your teeth or washing your face, putting on your pajamas, staying away from screens, and staying away especially from, you know, doom scrolling or anything that's too stimulating, doing something calming, relaxing. I'm a big fan of meditations, and especially for sleep. I think body scans can be really great, but there's all kinds of meditations for sleep.

Our mindful movement, maybe some gentle stretching for sleep. I love using, like, magnesium lotion. I always put, like- Mm ... magnesium lotion on my feet. And that's something that's, like, safe for pregnancy. And especially in the third trimester, right, people are uncomfortable, and a lot of people experience, like, cramping and stuff like that, right?

Like, things like magnesium can really help. But having, A gentle kind of calming routine around an hour where you're definitely staying away from screens, but doing things for yourself, like maybe a warm bath just like a baby reading a book just like a baby to kind of signal that the day is done and we're preparing, you know, ourselves for sleep That's so helpful.

Yeah, I'm definitely in the book club. I've- I love it. I just, I've got... And it's so funny, I've seen too on, like, Instagram, not doom scrolling my allotted time I give myself, but just doing hobbies for yourself that you used to do as a kid or a teen, and for me that's reading. That's definitely helped my sleep.

Mm-hmm. I look forward to it. Like, I'm like, "I'm gonna read a few chapters." And honestly, if I can't even hit 30 or 45 minutes reading, I put my Kindle down and I fall asleep. Like, it's that soothing to me that I'm like, "Nope, I can pick it up later." Yep. You know? Yep. I think that's so important that, yeah, it's I'm getting enough me time and I'm excited to get some sleep 'cause it- Yeah

is definitely important. Yep, 'cause you're creating those positive sleep associations with that g- like, consistent routine that really kind of, like, prepares your brain for bedtime. And journaling, that's one thing that adults- Ooh, yes ... can do that babies can't. Yes. But that's another thing I'm a big fan of too, especially if you have a busy mind at night.

Mm-hmm. So yeah, oftentimes for bed I'll do a little bit of journaling to kind of, like, process my thoughts and do kind of, like, you know, some magnesium lotion and, like, a body scan or another kind of mindful- mindfulness exercise or, you know, very gentle stretching or movements for sleep.

I think having a routine like that or something like that that kind of has those positive, you know, associations and cues your body to prepare for sleep, and not just your body but your mind too, 'cause that's really what sleep is for. Sleep is really for your mind. Ugh, so important, especially for the new moms or the moms who just have one kid, right?

Who- Yeah ... it's constant all day, making so... And I feel like that, people told me that. Like, "Oh, you start making decisions." Like, it just amplifies, right? Oh. But it's so true because you're, you're picking out y- from the moment they open their eyes, there's a choice to be had. Do I get them up now? Are they calm right now?

Okay, get them up. Time to change diaper. What are we gonna wear today? What's for breakfast? Totally. And it just never stops, ever. Yeah. Like, it just never stops. So I love that you said that sleep is for the mind. One more question before we talk about more fun stuff about you, but what are some red flags in terms of not getting enough sleep?

So I know you mentioned quite a bit, but would it be... , and basically I love that I've had, in my two girls, that I have my first one, horrible sleeper. Second one- Mm-hmm ... a champ. So this episode really is for the moms too, you know, who maybe they don't have the greatest sleeper. Yeah, I know. And so it's hard to set up that- It's the baby that you get, right?

Like- Yes ... you have, like, colic and, like- Mm-hmm ... you know? But yeah, babies You know, and this is another kind of big risk factor for perinatal mood and anxiety disorders, like your baby and like what kind of baby you have. It's nuts. And if you have a baby with colic- Absolutely ... or if you have a baby that's, you know, having issues with feeding or issues with sleeping, and especially the sleep part, right?

If that's, you know, disrupting your sleep, it's gonna be It's gonna have a bigger impact on you and your own mental health, for sure. Yeah. Absolutely. And so I guess for the l- past the newborn phase, we're looking at maybe 10 months on, right? 10 months, a year, where, where the baby really should be sleeping normally, and maybe is sleeping normally.

What are some red flags for moms that you would be like, "I think we should reach out to some expert, maybe get on medication, maybe get tested"? What are some red flags that you might have mentioned earlier, but just lay them out one more time? Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, generally, of course, like, the newborn period is gonna be hard, and your sleep is going to be disrupted, but certainly as your baby gets older, they should be sleeping longer stretches of time.

And you know, we haven't mentioned, like, working with a sleep consultant. Mm. Mm-hmm. But if you're experiencing, you know, past kind of the newborn days, a lot of difficulty i- with your baby kind of sleeping, and th- and that's interfering in your sleep, and that's impacting your mood and your ability to function definitely I think reaching out to a sleep consultant can make a big difference.

And similar to that, right, we mentioned, you know, and I know it's not the topic for today, but feeding difficulties can be another source of stress. Reaching out to, like, lactation consultants or other kinds of, like, feeding specialists if that's a source of anxiety. And they, they say that eating and sleeping are connected, right?

Mm. So reaching out to those kinds of sources of support too can make a big difference in the- Yeah ... in the postpartum period. And the postpartum period, psychologically speaking, is a year. It's not, you know, six or eight weeks- Hmm ... like in the medical model- Mm-hmm ... where they're really just looking at kind of a physical recovery from childbirth.

Psychologically speaking, it is a year, and a lot of moms, I think, don't really feel like themselves until maybe closer to a year and a half or even two years. It, it takes a long time to get your, your pink back, as they- ... as they say, or your sparkle back. Absolutely. I would so agree, too, and I breastfed both my girls.

The first one for two years, the second one- Mm-hmm ... she's 10 months, so I'm still breastfeeding. And I don't even have my cycle back, and I got my cycle back- Yeah ... pretty late with my first because she was draining me completely. But with my second, I feel like I'm eating well, I'm getting outside. You, you- Yeah

definitely become a lot more confident when you have more kids, obviously. And I still don't have my cycle back, so I love that you mentioned that because I feel like for a lot of women, myself included, you forget. You think, you know, four, five, six months, like, "Okay, I'm good." But no, my body is still healing.

My mind is still healing. Totally. Still adapting. And it's really important that you, you know, are prioritizing not just your sleep, your sleep is really, really important, but then also kind of like, you know- Are you drinking enough? Are you- Yes ... what is your, like, nutrition like? Because you're asking your body to do so much when you have a baby.

It's, it's so demanding, it's so depleting, so you really wanna make sure that you're supported, and a big part of that is getting rest especially when you're recovering postpartum. And recovery is kind of a long process, really, not just six or eight weeks, but beyond that, far beyond that. So you wanna make sure that you're nourishing yourself as well.

Part of that's through sleep, and part of that's through, through diet and, you know, maybe kind of like movement, and I would add even, like, social support and connection is nourishing. All of that matters. Oh, yes. I love social... Yeah, the play dates that come after becoming a mom are, like, the best, honestly.

And just a place to just talk to, resonate with, vent even sometimes. Yeah. They really become the best. I love that you mentioned that too, because yeah, it's like a good little-- It fills up your cup in a different way, right? So, like, for me- Mm-hmm ... reading fills up my cup, but I also really love my play dates.

Fills up my cup, too, to be with other moms with similar age kids. Yes, and we can definitely help each other with tips, right? Like, "Oh, I did this," or, "I did that," you know? And it definitely feels good. Yes. Mm-hmm. Okay. Well, we'll keep going with this conversation, but let's take one of our last breaks.

Welcome back to Newbies. We are continuing our topic, and Carissa, you have been amazing. So one more time tell us about your work. And I know you said that you are accepting new clients. Mm-hmm ... do they have to be local to California or Los Angeles? And I know you have a bunch of little worksheets you mentioned- Yep

or workups- Yep ... on your website. But one more time, tell us about it. Yeah, absolutely. So anyone anywhere can download for free the postpartum guide that I have on my website that talks you through, you know, ways that you can create a plan for postpartum that protects your mental health, and sleep is a huge part of that.

So I would encourage anybody to download that for free. Also on my website is the online course, Reclaim Your Life After Birth, which walks you through acceptance and commitment therapy and the skills from that model or approach, which is what I use in therapy, to help protect your mental health as you're, you know, transitioning into parenthood.

And yes, if you're interested in working one-on-one with me, you do need to be in the state of California. But if you are in the state of California you can fill out the contact page and we can discuss working together. Yay. That sounds awesome. And so last real question before we wrap up this amazing episode, and I hope the mamas listening will incorporate some of this and get a good night's sleep.

I'm putting it out there. But what is some advice you have for new moms who are in the sleep trenches right now? I guess I'll go first. And actually, this is something I've been thinking about for the past couple of weeks, 'cause like I've mentioned, I have a 10-month-old and then a three-year-old. She's, like, three and four months.

Anyway, I-- and they're needing me less and less, and it actually is making me sad. I'm getting- Aw ... better sleep, and I'm like, I know, and everyone says this and I kind of got irked by it, honestly, that, oh, you know, in the childhood phases, you know, you'll look back on the newborn trenches, the toddler stages, and miss it.

And I'm, I, I'm in it right now. Like, I definitely am in it. But I'm noticing the slight pull away, and I'm like, oh my gosh. So long story short you might be in the trenches now. It will get better. It definitely will get better. It's gonna be hard while you're in it, but, you know, time does heal sleep, for me at least.

Yeah. But anyway, what are some tips you have for the moms who are not getting sleep excited to start their new routine, but what would you tell them to encourage them? Yeah, absolutely. That, like, you will sleep and your baby will sleep at some point- Mm-hmm ... right? And, like, every baby's maybe a little bit different with that.

A- and again, like, you know, if, if that's been a struggle past a certain time, maybe it makes sense to reach out to, like, a sleep consultant to kind of troubleshoot. But you, your baby will sleep and you will sleep. You're not gonna be sleeping in 90-minute increments forever. You're not gonna be waking up at 3:00 in the morning to feed or to pump or anything like that.

And also, right, feel empowered to make the decisions that you need, you know, for the highest good of your, of your family when it comes to sleep, when it comes to mental health. If that means that you're, you know, going on medication, if that means that you're formula feeding whatever that might mean prioritize meeting your needs, you know, to support your mental health.

That's going to also kind of support your family. That is so important. I'm excited for this episode, honestly. I think it's so important, and I love talking about mamas. I mean, we- who doesn't like talking about babies? But mamas are so important, and we do need sleep, and it will come back eventually.

Yeah. We, we promise. Yep, you will feel rested one day. Yeah. This is not forever. Yeah, no. Okay. Well, thank you Carissa, so much for coming on. This has been a great episode. I am excited for them, for our listeners to definitely check you out. Yay, thank you. Yeah, thank you for having me. Yay. Well, be sure to check out newmommymedia.com where we have all of our podcast episodes, plus videos and more.

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