Transcript: Breastfeeding Expectations: The Fourth Month
The Boob Group
“Breastfeeding Expectations: The Fourth Month”
Please be advised, this transcription was performed from a company independent of New Mommy Media, LLC. As such, translation was required which may alter the accuracy of the transcription.
[00:00:00]
[Theme Music]
Robin Kaplan: A mother Breastfeeding experiences changes drastically over time, starting with her child’s birth throughout the months of her baby’s life. Today, we continue our conversation in our series called breastfeeding expectations. Over the next 12 months we will follow three new mothers along their breastfeeding journeys, learning how they cope with breastfeeding challenges and settle into the breastfeeding rhythms with their babies. This is the Boob Group, episode 23.
[Theme Music/Intro]
Robin Kaplan: Welcome to the Boob Group, broadcasting from the Birth Education Centre of San Diego. I am your host, Robin Kaplan. I am also a Certified Lactation Consultant and owner of the San Diego Breastfeeding Center. At the Boob Group, we’re your online support club.At the Boob Group, we’re your online support group for all things related to breastfeeding. Today, we are so excited to announce the Boob Group Club.This is an exclusive membership club available to all of our listeners.It gives you access to all of our archived episodes, written transcripts of the shows, plus a monthly newsletter with special giveaways, discounts and much much more. You can access all this great information through the web or through our new Boob Group App. For information, visit our
website https://www.theboobgroup.com and click on members at the top of the page. Now it’s time for me to introduce our lovely new moms who we will be following for now the next nine months. Ladies would like to introduce yourselves please.
Cherri Christiansen: Sure hi! I am Cherri Christiansen. I am 31, I work in consumer research and I have a brand new baby girl, guess she’s not so brand new anymore. She just turned three months old.
Anney Hall: Hi! I am Anney Hall. I am 36 years old and I am an architect and I have a brand new baby girl as well, but she’s four.....just about to turn four months and she’s Eleanor.
Robin Kaplan: And Jen who is usually here, as many things happened life gets in the way and her hubby is actually a grooms man in a wedding today, so she’s not going to be joining us today but, she will return when we are back for the fifth month.So, we just have these two nice ladies in this studio today.
[Theme Music]
[Featured Segments: News Headlines]
Robin Kaplan: We are going to kick off today’s episode with some unbelievable breastfeeding stories making headlines around the internet and all these stories are posted on our BoobGroup Pinterest board, if you would like check them out. So, the article today that we are going to talking about is from USA today and the title of it is, “Use of Mother’s Milk Banks, Milk Sharing Sky-Rockets” and so we have...... essentially, we’re just talking about how hospital milk banks and Facebook pages there, all these different places where new moms are using each other’s and one another’s mothers donated breast milk to feed their babies and apparently about 2.18 million ounces of breast milk were disturbed through the Human Milk Bank Association of North America in 2011 which is up from 1.5 million ounces in 2009 and 1.8 million ounces in 2010 and from the milk bank most of these milk is actual going to babies in the NICU and its actually quite costly, it’s about 3 to 5 dollars an ounce. So think about how much [Audience says wow] ya so your babies are probably getting about 30 ounces a day and so for......
Cherri Christiansen: I am curious what drives that cost? Why is it so expensive?Is it the cost of them processing it and screening the milk and screening the moms and all that stuff?
Robin Kaplan: That’s exactly it. So the pricing’s based on blood testing of the donor moms and screening the donated milk for bacteria and then they pasteurize it as well, because you think about it there combining milks from all different ladies and so they need to pasteurize it coz the bacteria and all kind of stuff we don’t know how old the milk is been around cause you obviously save it for quite a while especially if it’s in your freezer, so all different dates, all different ladies and then they also do these blood tests to make sure that the mom is really healthy.So, there is a lot of milking share that’s going on over Facebook as well and so I just wanted to get your take on it. I mean, have you heard it this before, you know, milk sharing either through milk banks or through Facebook?
Cherri Christiansen: Yeah, I have because I remember when I was pregnant I remember seeing someone had posted something on Facebook about a dad whose baby was not tolerating formula very well and the mom had unfortunately passed away and he was looking for donations and I just remembered thinking to myself, you know,“Oh my gosh, if I have, you know, extra milk and I am in a position to donate I would love, you know, I would love to do that.”But, I know that someone in the more official things like this script that you were talking about have a little bit more sort of, you know, hoops to jump through and that there are plenty of sorts of mom to mom groups on Facebook like is it “Eats on feets” I think is one of them.
Robin Kaplan: Eats on Feats is one, yeah.
[00:05.12]
Cherri Christiansen: And other groups like that; where mom all through Just connecting with moms in their local area and I know a couple of moms who have crazy, you know, excess supply who have been donating hundreds and hundreds of ounces of milk and I think it’s such a wonderful thing to do. It’s funny though I would be totally open to donating my milk. I don’t know how it feel about getting someone else’s though. I know it’s kind of a weird distinction but I guess if you really, really need it I would much rather take someone else’s milk than put my baby on formula.
Robin Kaplan: Yeah.
Cherri Christiansen: I would rather try that first.
Robin Kaplan: Yeah absolutely, what about you Anney?
Anney Hall: Initially, I think the idea of taking somebody else milk is strange to me, maybe just because I feel so connected to giving my milk to my daughter.
Robin Kaplan: Yeah.
Anney Hall: And keeping it with my family, but if there was no other course then I could see us choosing that as an option. I think it also sounds strange to mix the milks together.
Cherri Christiansen: Yeah.
Anney Hall: But I also think it’s an incredible thing and that its moms giving milk to these babies in the NICU I mean that’s just it’s an unbelievable thing. I think I would be able get over my initial....
Robin Kaplan: Yeah.
Anney Hall: I don’t know weirdness about it.it’s simply just a personal, like you know, just an initially reaction to sharing something a bottle.
Cherri Christiansen: Yeah.
Anney Hall: A bottle fluid with somebody else.
Robin Kaplan: Yeah.
Cherri Christiansen: But if you think about it, I am a vegan, so I don’t drink any dairy at all, but if you think about it we don’t have the cows but we drink their milk. Yeah. well and that’s why’s it is pasteurized.
Robin Kaplan: Well, there you go. Yeah, although there is raw milk and you know if you’re drink it from a cow that you actually you know well grass feed and he has like safe things but yeah I mean that’s one of the reasons they pasteurize the milk as you have to kill the bacteria and we just had an episode a couple weeks ago about women with insufficient glandular tissue and one of them women there; her baby has been on her milk and donor milk since the beginning and she’s so thankful for these moms that she’s met through these kinds of informal milk sharing pages and things like that, as well as friends, I know a lot of them work through friends but her baby is gosh, I think he is now 15 or 17 months old,
Cherri Christiansen: Wow.
Robin Kaplan: And still on breast milk, hers and donor milks, so it’s kind of cool concept.
Cherri Christiansen: That’s really good.
Robin Kaplan: Alright well, thanks for sharing your ideas ladies.
[Theme Music]
Robin Kaplan: So today on the Boob Group, we’re discussing with Anney and Cherri’s breastfeeding experiences have been like during their baby’s fourth month. So ladies, what new and exciting things that you’re kiddos doing now in their fourth month and it doesn’t even have to be related to breastfeeding but, what have you noticed that’s kind of different about them now?
Cherri Christiansen: I think non-breastfeeding-related Cali is just super chatty. She and I remember when I was in school and her uncle called Cherri Chatterbox, which perfect to come to open the radio’s I suppose, but she is just talking of course you know, it’s just all gurgles and awful sounds babbles yeah, but it’s just like I mean I think last month we were talking about sort of smiles and her actually smiling back at me and all of that, but all of sudden it was just blubabuba and sometimes she’s just going and going and I’ll kind of talk back to her when she does that and the more I talk back to her the more she kind of talks back to me.So that’s been non-breastfeeding related but very, very fun and it definitely feel like she’s getting more and more interactive every day.
Robin Kaplan: Yeah, how about you Anney?
Anney Hall: Yeah, she’s definitely been talking. Eleanor has been; she has started talking to me in the morning so when I first breastfeeding session she would just sit there and look pull back and look at me and then just start talking so we coo back and forth to each other, and then she’s interactive, she’s playing with her rings and her little gym and anything that she can hold on to with her fist, she enjoys. In fact she, yesterday she fell asleep hanging on to these rings that are hanging from her.....
Cherri Christiansen: When did she start chairing that?
Anney hall: At the last few weeks, last co weeks when my sister brought over these rings and so I just gave them to our hanging and then she would hang on to ’em and she’s under her gym and she has this one toe that has rings underneath it and she has one hand and then her rings and other and she’s just like starting to do Olympics. She’s very talented.
Cherri Christiansen: Doing sit-ups.
Anney Hall: So yeah that’s right, so yesterday she fell asleep with her hand holding the ring [Audience says Aww] and in the car seat which was pretty awesome and so yeah, very interactive and rolling, not so much rolling over but just rolling on her side picking up her feet and I need to do more tummy time, I forgot to do that part.
[00:09.40]
Robin Kaplan: I know, I remember when my son was three months old it was such a different, all of a sudden he was just interacting with his environment and like you said chewing on toys and remember him sticking in him bouncy chair in the kitchen while I was cooking and before, you know, before three months I kind of need to pick him up after about 10 minutes so I was constantly going back and forth dinner took me like an hour to cook and then once around three months all of sudden he was like just kind of hanging in out there, he looked at dad, looked at me and me like cool, we have conversations back and forth and he was just all of sudden just so excited about his environment rather than over-stimulated by it and I just thought it was such a cool things so, it’s so exciting year. You are little ones are going through that as well.
Cherri Christiansen: And I love that Eleanor’s couple of weeks older than Cali so I feel like every month is kind of sneak peek of what’s coming up next, she is not really holding on to the things yet but I can see she’s sort of making little grasping things with her hands or trying her something and she’s not really interested in it, but her hands are fascinating and those go right in her mouth;
Robin Kaplan: Yeah.
Cherri Christiansen: Just to see how many fingers she can fit inside, I feel she’s almost there so.....
Anney Hall: Well, that’s what it started with it, it was her hands first and then it’s ear and her mouth and then it was her arms go feeling all over the place to try to get the one thing that’s right on her so they go out here to the right and then they come back to her heart and then she grabs this little toy and then she starts sucking on it, you know, and slobber going all over the place which I realize that she’s been putting her hand up towards her ear little bit, so she’s teething which I didn’t realize would start so soon but she will be teething for the next three months, and a tooth wouldn’t come through......
Robin Kaplan: Totally.
Anney Hall: Cause I understand right, so she’s been slobbering all over the place.
Robin Kaplan: So you have that to come to look for.
Cherri Christiansen: There has been a lot of slobber and I have just been like keeping my fingers crossed like she’s not teething yet, it’s too early, it’s too early, it’s too early.
Robin Kaplan: So have you noticed a change in your baby’s breastfeeding patterns over this past month or they still kind of feeding I think they were feeding a couple last month, they were feeding every couple hours and going longer stretches at night and stuff like that. What’s it looking like for now for you?
Cherri Christiansen: Cali is still pretty much doing that. I think she’s taking, you know, every now and then and I’ll kind of do it pre and post-feed way inside notice that she’s taking a little bit more and at each session but I don’t feel like she’s nursing less pretty much on me. So I think she’s still going as often and just taking in more milk. We definitely had some cropped some issues with her in the beginning where she was really spitting up a lot and turn lights talk about it coz whenever I talk about she spits up. Better don’t say anything for 2 months it doesn’t happen but that seems to really, really have gotten better and I know it’s, I knew its normal but it was still little bit alarming because I would feel like she just spat up like ounce for ounce every ounce now and she just took in and clearly I think it was just, you know, part of normal underdevelopment of her, you know, of her system and she seems to be getting much better so but she still nursing, she’s still nursing a lot. I think the one thing that I have noticed it much harder was we really
use to try and get to her before she was crying like, crying was the lost thing and one of the things that was really great was whenever she was hungry she would put her hands by her mouth and that was one of the easiest cue’s for me to pick up now her hands are always in her mouth like,24/7 she has a hand in her mouth and so it’s become a little bit harder to kind of pick up sometimes on when she isn’t, you know, isn’t hungry but yeah she is been doing great and she’s, we definitely kind of you know, getting much more in to the rhythm of things and I realized days go by where I am just like, oh everything is just completely normal, you know this is what I wanted from day one.
Robin Kaplan: Yeah.
Cherri Christiansen: It just took us you know two to three months to get there.
Robin Kaplan: And you bring up a really good point before, Anney before you share, but right around three months when babies are starting to put their hands and toys and things in their mouth, it is really challenging to find out when they are hungry because that is no longer a cue anymore and I think that sometimes some parents don’t know that and so they are like “why is my baby is hungry all the time” but actually it’s no longer an instinct for them to put their hands in their mouth and point to their mouth and say like put something in here right now and feed me. Now it’s just like, oh this is awesome I found my hands I found this little chew toy and I am gonna chew toy it’s like a dog but you know well no toy and then because they feel good on their gums and now they how to use their hands.
Cherri Christiansen: I just have to compete with her hands though because I am trying to nurse her and her hands are in the way and always were but now it’s just like she has so much of control over them and you know ,the second like sometimes she will kind of like pop off a little bit and before I can get her latched on again there’s a hand in her mouth you know and I am like no, no and then sometimes that I just forgot on her maybe she just wants hands in her mouth and I let her keep the hand, you know, we will try again 15 minutes.
Robin Kaplan: Absolutely, Anney how about you? Breastfeeding looking the same for you now?
Anney Hall: No, but I don’t know how to describe what it is right now because we are both confused
Robin Kaplan: So let’s talk about it. Put in what’s confusing.
Anney Hall: So we had a pretty good pattern of like three hours cycle of eat, play sleep kind of cycle and she would sleep for about hour or hour and half, and so that was it and then the last few days she; well last couple of weeks she was up at different times in the night just once but just up at different times and so that threw me off and then she will wake up in the morning at different times and I was getting used to her being up around seven-seven thirty so that’s works so great with a daily routine and I can figure that out and then this last week five and then eight and it was four and then seven, but then she wasn’t hungry at seven so I was expecting her to eat right when she woke and she wasn’t hungry right when she woke up.
Robin Kaplan: Yeah.
[00:14.58]
Anney Hall: So then, I would feed her again at 8 but then it was kind of a half feeding and then I had to go to work so I don’t get to be home, make me emotional to figure it out.
Robin Kaplan: Yeah.
Anney Hall: So, she is eating plenty through the bottle through the day but just right now I tried to feed with her bottle and today, with the breast she was like I don’t wanna it. So she might be I don’t know a little bit of teething and her hands in her mouth and all those saliva and maybe she is a little confused too and she doesn’t know when she wants it, I don’t know so.....
Robin Kaplan: Something will doubt into her and she figures out.
Anney Hall: So I feel like she’s in transition to a new pattern.
Robin Kaplan: Yeah.
Anney Hall: And maybe she’s gonna be up a little bit longer, maybe she needs a little bit more every time she eats so I have decided to into the four ounces its five and so I am trying that, I will be trying that; but I just I haven’t figured out what she needs when.
Robin Kaplan: Yeah.
Anney Hall: So that’s where I am.
Robin Kaplan: And the other thing that’s really common with babies who, I am sure we will be talking about this next month actually, it's very common when babies hit that kind of four-month mark they become very distractible at that breast like their sitting there and they are calm and all of sudden they're like ohh, it’s shiny and they flip in there and sometimes with your nipple in their mouth they are ground.
Anney Hall: No, totally true.
Robin Kaplan: Yeah, and so what we find a lot and I remember with my own kids too, as they were sleeping great until about four months and then all of sudden we had this reversal where they were starting to wake up more frequently in the middle of the night and I think it’s because they are not getting as much in the day time.....
Cherri Christiansen: Right.
Robin Kaplan: Because they are like woo shinny and so unless you sitting in a quiet room and really kind of setting your nursing routine then they kind of snack through the day and then at night they are like, oh I need to wake up coz I am actually hungry, whereas my four year is like wow you know you’re not hungry, you're powering through it. Why are you hungry now? Is it something with my supply and often times that is nothing to do with the supply but just that they for a snack throughout the day cause they were so interested in talking about how would now everything is not so overwhelming to them but actually very interesting and they wanna interactive with their environment. Sometimes they interact when they are trying to eat and so they need to be you know in a quieter space sometimes so you might be something that you can try with Cali and see if maybe you can set up this you probably are already doing this anyway if not just find a quiet space in your home or when you’re out where it’s just that two of you and she is spending more time there and so that way it’s not disturbing kind of this breastfeeding, bottle feeding all that kind of stuff going on so, just a little tip bet. Think Cali is awake?
Cherri Christiansen: Someone has just workouts.
Robin Kaplan: Exactly well perfect timing Cali.
Cherri Christiansen: She said I am gonna let you know I am hungry!
Robin Kaplan: Exactly, when we come back, we will be discussing how Anney and Cherri are dealing with their returning back to work and pumping and I know that both of them had some questions that they
want to talk about today.So, we will be right back.
[Theme Music]
Robin Kaplan: Alright, so we are back and Anney, I know you had a question.Y ou had mentioned to me that you’re curious about increasing your fat content in your milk and so if I may ask, are you worried about the fat content of your milk? What kind of sparked this question for you?
Anney Hall: I heard through a friend who has a daughter that her wife was looking to increase the fat content so she started to drinking dark beers like Porters and dark beers to increase the fat content and so I thought to myself for why do you need to increase the fat content?Do I not make enough fat? Coz she said one of her friends actually I think it is Jen, her milk has a; if you look at the four ounces there’s like two ounces of fat and then the rest is regular.
Cherri Christiansen: Wow.
Anney Hall: Right and so she says.....
Robin Kaplan: That’s exorbitant actually.
Anney Hall: So, well its butter and cream just like your kids had, so I thought well is this supposed to be like that and I didn’t really look anything up. I just thought I need to talk to Robin about this. What do I do to make more fat?Am I supposed to have more fat and then I read a little bit about that is not so much about the fat, it’s just about the amount. But I was curious is there something that I am not doing right in my diet.
Robin Kaplan: Well, I loved that question. I actually.... when you asked it, I was like hmm I don’t know the answer to that so I went on to Kelly mom.
Cherri Christiansen: That’s my favorite place.
Robin Kaplan: That’s your favorite place, and it I mean I had kind of I had an assumption about it but I just I want to make sure that I had the correct answer and so you are correct.Its more about the amount the babies getting and rather than the fat content and so really the way to ensure that your baby is getting enough of that hindmilk that we hear a lot about which I actually have an article on my website for the San Diego Breast Feeding Centre about that the foremilk hindmilk imbalances actually quite a controversy coz I find that a lot of moms unnecessarily worry about it because it’s really not something to worry about unless you see some symptoms and some signs a bit but essentially the more full your breast is, the longer you’ve gone to say things first thing in the morning and your baby’s had a four, five, six hours chunk of time that your baby slept then your milk is actually gonna be more watery, it’s gonna have more foremilk because your breast already, your goods are stretched to capacity, okay? But then, if you feed more regularly and it doesn’t allow them to fill up as much then the percentage-wise that we’re looking at foremilk and hind milk is gonna be a little bit more balanced, and so the more that you have been there, the more foremilk that is, but so really its and it also increases your milk production the more that you empty your breast. So it’s not necessarily there is anything that you can do to increase the fat content of your milk. Every women’s fat content is different and it fluctuates throughout the entire time that they’re breastfeeding. I
think I would actually like to see this women’s milk coz I be really surprised if its two ounces of cream and two ounces of foremilk coz even in my good days when my kids were like cat-like chunky, chunky babies it’s still only skim of the top of it when it froze.
Cherri Christiansen: Okay.
[00:21.09]
Robin Kaplan: So yeah, so I think that’s and again your babies getting hindmilk even from that first drop that they are taking, but the percentage of it compare to the foremilk is lower but then the throughout the feeding as your babies on there its higher hindmilk concentration, higher hind milk concentration, and then towards end of the feeding it’s kind of flip flops so there is more hindmilk in there and less foremilk, so as long your baby is draining the breast and draining it regularly whether you’re at work and pumping or your babies is on you, you know throughout the day and night then your baby’s is accessing all the fat content that they need as long as the ounces are kind of meeting their needs so.....
Anney Hall: Well and I think that’s whatlet me to not so much a question but an understanding after reading that I think I read that same thing, at work when I pump I wasn’t necessarily draining. I was just going for 10 or 15 minutes but I also was thinking that I have to hurry up.
Robin Kaplan: Yeah.
Anney Hall: So there was that sort of pressure and pull that I have put on myself but did last couple of days I have just gone for 20 minutes and it looks like I have drained a lot.
Robin Kaplan: That’s a good idea.
Anney Hall: So and then also it gives me more of a supply.
Robin Kaplan: Yeah, and the other thing is to as if your press for time during those..... so say you pump for 10 minutes without any massage and maybe you’re reading your iPhone just to kind of decompress for a little bit listening some music those last five minutes if you have 15 minutes get in there and really massage especially like underneath the armpit and preferably the breast is where that really hard to access milk kind of hangs out and that’s the creamier milk and so really kind of comprising and pushing from the outer edges of the breast to the nipple, I would find that towards the end of my pumping session when I was at work if I squeezed my breast together and gave myself some really sweet cleavage that would actually give me whole another ounce, than if wouldn’t have done that and so that also another way rather than pumping for longer but just actually doing some hands-on massage while your pumping for really get the milk out.
Cherri Christiansen: So would actually be squeezing that whole ounce or just do it once and then it would stimulate the extra ounce to come out in that compression?
Robin Kaplan: Oh good I would actually do the compression for about 5 minutes.
Cherri Christiansen: Okay.
Robin Kaplan: So in line with...
Cherri Christiansen: We’re doing it here, we’re practicing. [Laughs]
Robin Kaplan: I know we are trying, squeezing it to the Cali’s mouth but it’s kind of the same philosophy we were in the beginning when your baby is just the first few days old and you're trying to keep them awake at the breast and so you're pressing your breast to kind of squeeze the milk into their mouth, same time type of things towards the end of your pumping sessions or the end of your breastfeeding sessions too. Using those compressions just helps get the milk out and so yes, they would use it for probably the last five minutes in it; I would find that I the time, when all of sudden my milk would not becoming out any more, would be sooner rather than if I didn’t use massage at all also.
Anney Hall: Yeah.
Robin Kaplan: Maybe I didn’t use massage I would take 20 minutes to for further flow to really stop, but if I use to massage it would take about 15 cause once I let go it’s like there’s nothing else coming out so I felt like I really maximize my pumping session. So
I know right, Cherri you had mentioned to me that, you know, you are kind of feeling stress about going back to work?
Cherri Christiansen: Yes!
Robin Kaplan: It’s a very emotional experience.
Cherri Christiansen: I will not cry.
Robin Kaplan: Yes
Cherri Christiansen: I will not cry; I will not cry.
Robin Kaplan: I cried for the first week when I was back at work I totally remember that.....
Cherri Christiansen: Yeah.
Robin Kaplan: That just sobbing, but it definitely gets better I know that but you were saying that you kind of worry about this and even now while your worrying about it if you’ve noticed that you are supply can go down it’s really affected by the mental.
Cherri Christiansen: I think I mean you know if you collide definitely you have an oversupply in the beginning which I think contributed and exsiccated better all of the other issues that I had and it was a tough problems I have just coz I meet so many people in my breastfeeding support groups who didn’t have enough milk and so they are like oh Boo-hoo, you have too much milk. But, I definitely sort of saw things sort of stabilizing and I thought that okay, you know the time and body’s kind of gotten sort of used to the rhythm of things and kind of sucked up from the pumping a little bit just coz I hate pumping and I was just kind of really busy and stuff like that and I didn’t, before I was pumping because I felt like I needed too because I was so engorged still inside I would have to pump a little bit. I would pump maybe once a day and then was once in every other day and once in every two days and then it kind of started getting less and less, then all of sudden I realized I was like I should probably stop pumping. Again, I am going back to work we need to make sure that we are giving Cali a bottle and that was one all of sudden I started to notice the difference because you know the only you can’t really notice a huge difference in your supply when your just nursing because you never
see the milk which I know is why so many people have frustration with the breastfeeding but it was when I was pumping that I was seeing a huge difference. My bottles are of 5 ounce bottles and I would notice that I could full them up pretty quickly within literally five minutes. I would turn the pump on so yes and he is looking at me like crazy here which was why I was thinking a pumping at work is going to be a breeze coz I was thinking where am I gonna have time to do these 15-20 minutes pumping sessions and I thought this is fantastic it will only takes me 5 minutes so that’s great, and then when
I kind of started pumping a little bit more regularly I noticed that I wasn’t getting as much milk.So one day I pumped and I got one and half ounces out of the left when I normally get about four and half selves like ok that’s a significant difference and then the right side was always kind of the over producer well, more than the left side and I would normally get like five or five and half and I noticed I was only getting only four and the more I started to noticing those I think the more It started to stressing me out and I think of it as probably a little bit of vicious cycle and I kind of just decided, this was only about maybe 2 weeks ago since then I just decided you know what maybe I need just be pumping every day, every day, try and become more consistent and I noticed that it has been going up,
Robin Kaplan: Oh, good.
[00:26.33]
Cherri Christiansen: Especially since I have been trying to relax a little a bit not as much as it was before, but the thing that I am noticing now is it’s taking 15-20 minutes for the same amount of milk that I used to get in 5 and so I am not sure why is it taking so much longer to get the exact same amount of milk that I used to get before.
Robin Kaplan: Yeah, well my thought it probably is that you did have such an oversupply before and Cali was taking was less and so and we also find the most women’s milk, their breast and their milk supply kind of regulates in about 12 weeks and your body just stops, you don’t wanna walk around on a permanence state of engorgement.
Cherri Christiansen: No.
Robin Kaplan: And so and you are body doesn’t want to you to either because it’s closed down your supply and it may decrease your supply if you are an up for the permanent state of engorgement and so.....
Cherri Christiansen: Good point.
Robin Kaplan: Yeah, so now that your body is regulated it’s now meeting Cali’s need more regularly rather than overcompensating or making more than she needs and that’s probably why you are finding that its taking longer because it’s not just pouring out like it was before but its actually not, actually not supposed to.It should take because think about how long does Cali stay at the breast when she nurses?
Cherri Christiansen: She’s been on for a while around for a while, normally if sometimes she is done in 5-10 minutes.
Robin Kaplan: Okay.
Cherri Christiansen: She is always really, really fascinator.
Robin Kaplan: Well, she’s also gonna be stronger than the pump.
Cherri Christiansen: Yeah.
Robin Kaplan: And so try the massage and see if that helps because they do find and moms sometime is, you have to psychologically let down for the pump.
Cherri Christiansen: I know, I know.
Robin Kaplan: It’s different.
Cherri Christiansen: Yeah.
Robin Kaplan: And so if pumping is stressing you out find some things that make it so that way it’s not so stressfully. We actually just had an episode released a couple of weeks ago about maximizing your pumping sessions where we talked about.....
Cherri Christiansen: I’ll go listen to that.
Robin Kaplan: Yeah, just about ways in which you make pumping work for you better and see if those help to really kind of get your some milk flow a little bit more easily.
Cherri Christiansen: I got early on and I got one of those hands-free bra’s. I thought that’s gonna be fantastic coz the first couple of session sitting in there and holding the two bottles but find it actually makes it a little bit harder to kind of get in and do the massage and feel what’s going on and feel if my breast is empty because the bra is so tightened that it is so much of compression from the bra so is that my hands-free but it makes little harder so I am going to go experiment.
Robin Kaplan: Okay.
Cherri Christiansen: Next couple days and I let you know.
Robin Kaplan: Okay, sounds good.Anney, what type of advice do you have for Cherri kind of going back to work or with the things kind of popping in your head while Cherri was talking?
Anney Hall: There were I was thinking about in the beginning about the pumping situation was uncomfortable for me and made me sad and........
Robin Kaplan: When you were back at work?
Anney Hall: When I was back at work at already, and just feeling like it was part of my routine or my day, but now that I have been at back at work I think for now a month it definitely feels a lot more normal and I am de-sensitized to it that you know, here I am, I am just pumping and I have a cover and everyone knows that what’s happening so it’s, and I have let go of the sensitivity that I was feeling before too, so it’s definitely a little bit easier and I don’t have as much privacy as you might be able to have I don’t know. So, that having the cover was a big deal and then I was also getting nervous that I sometimes because of meetings or things that were going on I was skipping up our pumping session and so I thought it was its not going to make my supply going down and whatever so talked with Robin about it and she advised to do an extra pump at night and then maybe do a little bit in the morning. So, as long as I am continually getting the milk out and making sure that I have enough bottles for the next day for once she’s with her carry giver her then, then I feel okay.
Cherri Christiansen: Oh okay.
Anney Hall: And now I am all screwed up because she’s not, she’s I don’t know what, when she’s hungry and how much she’s taking in and how much she needs so I am in a state of confusion. [
[00:30.24]
Audience: Hi!
Cherri Christiansen: When Cali’s awake.
Audience: Hi Cali, coz your smiling at everyone.
Robin Kaplan: Well, ladies I think that kind of wraps up our show today we definitely delve more into this, “Hi sweetheart” we can definitely delve more into this you know going back to work, the topic is what Cali, how many more earth Cali [Audience Laughs and says Cherri tell us]
Cherri Christiansen: I know I have noticed people calling me Cali lately and I figure it you know what I’ll just answer that until she’s is old enough for to answer the Cali I will answer.
Robin Kaplan: I am just scaring at her; she’s so damn cute. Cherri how many more weeks do you have before you go back to work?
Cherri Christiansen: I think I have probably about four and half weeks.
Robin Kaplan: Okay! So we.......
Cherri Christiansen: That’s a little while I may see you again before the next one but it will probably be days.
Robin Kaplan: Now you’ll definitely have some questions afterward.
Cherri Christiansen: Yes.
Robin Kaplan: Well ladies thank you so much for sharing your experiences breastfeeding your babies during their fourth month of life and Cherri we wish you the best of luck for returning to work, hopefully we don’t speak to you before then.
Cherri Christiansen: Thank you.
Robin Kaplan: And we look forward to catching up with the two of you as well as Jen in the few weeks, so thanks so much for coming.
[Theme Music]
Robin Kaplan: Before we end our episode today, here is a hilarious breastfeeding oops from one of our listeners.
[Featured Segments: Boob Oops]
Aaren: Hi my name is Aaren and I have nine-month-old son named Cash and this is my boob oops. I had never breastfeed in public and when Cash was about six months old we finally managed to go out with some friends. They had invited us to watch a game; so we went to petco park and they had these wonderful seats right behind the home plate and I thought okay, this a good time to go ahead and try and breastfeed in public. So I started to nurse Cash and since he’s not accustomed to being nursed with a cover, he threw the cover back and threw himself back exposing all of my business to those around me and I managed to get covered up and get him calm and everything and then a few minutes later my hostess turns to me and she says Aaren you know, I think that because we are behind home plate we are on national television.Yeah! So much for the first time in to nonchalantly and covertly breastfeed in public, so!
Robin Kaplan: If you have a breastfeeding oops you would like to share please call our Boob Group Hotline at 619-866-4775 and we’ll highlight it in our upcoming episode. Thank you to all our listeners. I hope you’ll visit the website
https://www.theboobgroup.com and add your stories about breastfeeding your three to four-month-old in the comment section on this episode page. Coming up next week, we’ll be discussing sex and
breastfeeding, not at the same time. Thanks for listening to The Boob Group, because mothers know breast.
[00:33.19]
[Disclaimer]
This has been a New Mommy Media Production. Information and materials contained in this episode are presented for educational purposes only. Statements and opinions expressed in this episode are not necessarily those of New Mommy Media and should not be considered facts. Though such information in which areas are released to be accurate, it is not intended to replace or substitute for professional, medical and advice or care and should not be used for diagnosing or treating healthcare problem or disease or prescribing any medications. If you’ve questions or concerns regarding your physical or mental health or the health of your baby, please seek assistance from a qualified healthcare provider.
[00:34.05]
End of Audio
Episode Transcript
The Boob Group
“Breastfeeding Expectations: The Fourth Month”
Please be advised, this transcription was performed from a company independent of New Mommy Media, LLC. As such, translation was required which may alter the accuracy of the transcription.
[00:00:00]
[Theme Music]
Robin Kaplan: A mother Breastfeeding experiences changes drastically over time, starting with her child’s birth throughout the months of her baby’s life. Today, we continue our conversation in our series called breastfeeding expectations. Over the next 12 months we will follow three new mothers along their breastfeeding journeys, learning how they cope with breastfeeding challenges and settle into the breastfeeding rhythms with their babies. This is the Boob Group, episode 23.
[Theme Music/Intro]
Robin Kaplan: Welcome to the Boob Group, broadcasting from the Birth Education Centre of San Diego. I am your host, Robin Kaplan. I am also a Certified Lactation Consultant and owner of the San Diego Breastfeeding Center. At the Boob Group, we’re your online support club.At the Boob Group, we’re your online support group for all things related to breastfeeding. Today, we are so excited to announce the Boob Group Club.This is an exclusive membership club available to all of our listeners.It gives you access to all of our archived episodes, written transcripts of the shows, plus a monthly newsletter with special giveaways, discounts and much much more. You can access all this great information through the web or through our new Boob Group App. For information, visit our
website https://www.theboobgroup.com and click on members at the top of the page. Now it’s time for me to introduce our lovely new moms who we will be following for now the next nine months. Ladies would like to introduce yourselves please.
Cherri Christiansen: Sure hi! I am Cherri Christiansen. I am 31, I work in consumer research and I have a brand new baby girl, guess she’s not so brand new anymore. She just turned three months old.
Anney Hall: Hi! I am Anney Hall. I am 36 years old and I am an architect and I have a brand new baby girl as well, but she’s four.....just about to turn four months and she’s Eleanor.
Robin Kaplan: And Jen who is usually here, as many things happened life gets in the way and her hubby is actually a grooms man in a wedding today, so she’s not going to be joining us today but, she will return when we are back for the fifth month.So, we just have these two nice ladies in this studio today.
[Theme Music]
[Featured Segments: News Headlines]
Robin Kaplan: We are going to kick off today’s episode with some unbelievable breastfeeding stories making headlines around the internet and all these stories are posted on our BoobGroup Pinterest board, if you would like check them out. So, the article today that we are going to talking about is from USA today and the title of it is, “Use of Mother’s Milk Banks, Milk Sharing Sky-Rockets” and so we have...... essentially, we’re just talking about how hospital milk banks and Facebook pages there, all these different places where new moms are using each other’s and one another’s mothers donated breast milk to feed their babies and apparently about 2.18 million ounces of breast milk were disturbed through the Human Milk Bank Association of North America in 2011 which is up from 1.5 million ounces in 2009 and 1.8 million ounces in 2010 and from the milk bank most of these milk is actual going to babies in the NICU and its actually quite costly, it’s about 3 to 5 dollars an ounce. So think about how much [Audience says wow] ya so your babies are probably getting about 30 ounces a day and so for......
Cherri Christiansen: I am curious what drives that cost? Why is it so expensive?Is it the cost of them processing it and screening the milk and screening the moms and all that stuff?
Robin Kaplan: That’s exactly it. So the pricing’s based on blood testing of the donor moms and screening the donated milk for bacteria and then they pasteurize it as well, because you think about it there combining milks from all different ladies and so they need to pasteurize it coz the bacteria and all kind of stuff we don’t know how old the milk is been around cause you obviously save it for quite a while especially if it’s in your freezer, so all different dates, all different ladies and then they also do these blood tests to make sure that the mom is really healthy.So, there is a lot of milking share that’s going on over Facebook as well and so I just wanted to get your take on it. I mean, have you heard it this before, you know, milk sharing either through milk banks or through Facebook?
Cherri Christiansen: Yeah, I have because I remember when I was pregnant I remember seeing someone had posted something on Facebook about a dad whose baby was not tolerating formula very well and the mom had unfortunately passed away and he was looking for donations and I just remembered thinking to myself, you know,“Oh my gosh, if I have, you know, extra milk and I am in a position to donate I would love, you know, I would love to do that.”But, I know that someone in the more official things like this script that you were talking about have a little bit more sort of, you know, hoops to jump through and that there are plenty of sorts of mom to mom groups on Facebook like is it “Eats on feets” I think is one of them.
Robin Kaplan: Eats on Feats is one, yeah.
[00:05.12]
Cherri Christiansen: And other groups like that; where mom all through Just connecting with moms in their local area and I know a couple of moms who have crazy, you know, excess supply who have been donating hundreds and hundreds of ounces of milk and I think it’s such a wonderful thing to do. It’s funny though I would be totally open to donating my milk. I don’t know how it feel about getting someone else’s though. I know it’s kind of a weird distinction but I guess if you really, really need it I would much rather take someone else’s milk than put my baby on formula.
Robin Kaplan: Yeah.
Cherri Christiansen: I would rather try that first.
Robin Kaplan: Yeah absolutely, what about you Anney?
Anney Hall: Initially, I think the idea of taking somebody else milk is strange to me, maybe just because I feel so connected to giving my milk to my daughter.
Robin Kaplan: Yeah.
Anney Hall: And keeping it with my family, but if there was no other course then I could see us choosing that as an option. I think it also sounds strange to mix the milks together.
Cherri Christiansen: Yeah.
Anney Hall: But I also think it’s an incredible thing and that its moms giving milk to these babies in the NICU I mean that’s just it’s an unbelievable thing. I think I would be able get over my initial....
Robin Kaplan: Yeah.
Anney Hall: I don’t know weirdness about it.it’s simply just a personal, like you know, just an initially reaction to sharing something a bottle.
Cherri Christiansen: Yeah.
Anney Hall: A bottle fluid with somebody else.
Robin Kaplan: Yeah.
Cherri Christiansen: But if you think about it, I am a vegan, so I don’t drink any dairy at all, but if you think about it we don’t have the cows but we drink their milk. Yeah. well and that’s why’s it is pasteurized.
Robin Kaplan: Well, there you go. Yeah, although there is raw milk and you know if you’re drink it from a cow that you actually you know well grass feed and he has like safe things but yeah I mean that’s one of the reasons they pasteurize the milk as you have to kill the bacteria and we just had an episode a couple weeks ago about women with insufficient glandular tissue and one of them women there; her baby has been on her milk and donor milk since the beginning and she’s so thankful for these moms that she’s met through these kinds of informal milk sharing pages and things like that, as well as friends, I know a lot of them work through friends but her baby is gosh, I think he is now 15 or 17 months old,
Cherri Christiansen: Wow.
Robin Kaplan: And still on breast milk, hers and donor milks, so it’s kind of cool concept.
Cherri Christiansen: That’s really good.
Robin Kaplan: Alright well, thanks for sharing your ideas ladies.
[Theme Music]
Robin Kaplan: So today on the Boob Group, we’re discussing with Anney and Cherri’s breastfeeding experiences have been like during their baby’s fourth month. So ladies, what new and exciting things that you’re kiddos doing now in their fourth month and it doesn’t even have to be related to breastfeeding but, what have you noticed that’s kind of different about them now?
Cherri Christiansen: I think non-breastfeeding-related Cali is just super chatty. She and I remember when I was in school and her uncle called Cherri Chatterbox, which perfect to come to open the radio’s I suppose, but she is just talking of course you know, it’s just all gurgles and awful sounds babbles yeah, but it’s just like I mean I think last month we were talking about sort of smiles and her actually smiling back at me and all of that, but all of sudden it was just blubabuba and sometimes she’s just going and going and I’ll kind of talk back to her when she does that and the more I talk back to her the more she kind of talks back to me.So that’s been non-breastfeeding related but very, very fun and it definitely feel like she’s getting more and more interactive every day.
Robin Kaplan: Yeah, how about you Anney?
Anney Hall: Yeah, she’s definitely been talking. Eleanor has been; she has started talking to me in the morning so when I first breastfeeding session she would just sit there and look pull back and look at me and then just start talking so we coo back and forth to each other, and then she’s interactive, she’s playing with her rings and her little gym and anything that she can hold on to with her fist, she enjoys. In fact she, yesterday she fell asleep hanging on to these rings that are hanging from her.....
Cherri Christiansen: When did she start chairing that?
Anney hall: At the last few weeks, last co weeks when my sister brought over these rings and so I just gave them to our hanging and then she would hang on to ’em and she’s under her gym and she has this one toe that has rings underneath it and she has one hand and then her rings and other and she’s just like starting to do Olympics. She’s very talented.
Cherri Christiansen: Doing sit-ups.
Anney Hall: So yeah that’s right, so yesterday she fell asleep with her hand holding the ring [Audience says Aww] and in the car seat which was pretty awesome and so yeah, very interactive and rolling, not so much rolling over but just rolling on her side picking up her feet and I need to do more tummy time, I forgot to do that part.
[00:09.40]
Robin Kaplan: I know, I remember when my son was three months old it was such a different, all of a sudden he was just interacting with his environment and like you said chewing on toys and remember him sticking in him bouncy chair in the kitchen while I was cooking and before, you know, before three months I kind of need to pick him up after about 10 minutes so I was constantly going back and forth dinner took me like an hour to cook and then once around three months all of sudden he was like just kind of hanging in out there, he looked at dad, looked at me and me like cool, we have conversations back and forth and he was just all of sudden just so excited about his environment rather than over-stimulated by it and I just thought it was such a cool things so, it’s so exciting year. You are little ones are going through that as well.
Cherri Christiansen: And I love that Eleanor’s couple of weeks older than Cali so I feel like every month is kind of sneak peek of what’s coming up next, she is not really holding on to the things yet but I can see she’s sort of making little grasping things with her hands or trying her something and she’s not really interested in it, but her hands are fascinating and those go right in her mouth;
Robin Kaplan: Yeah.
Cherri Christiansen: Just to see how many fingers she can fit inside, I feel she’s almost there so.....
Anney Hall: Well, that’s what it started with it, it was her hands first and then it’s ear and her mouth and then it was her arms go feeling all over the place to try to get the one thing that’s right on her so they go out here to the right and then they come back to her heart and then she grabs this little toy and then she starts sucking on it, you know, and slobber going all over the place which I realize that she’s been putting her hand up towards her ear little bit, so she’s teething which I didn’t realize would start so soon but she will be teething for the next three months, and a tooth wouldn’t come through......
Robin Kaplan: Totally.
Anney Hall: Cause I understand right, so she’s been slobbering all over the place.
Robin Kaplan: So you have that to come to look for.
Cherri Christiansen: There has been a lot of slobber and I have just been like keeping my fingers crossed like she’s not teething yet, it’s too early, it’s too early, it’s too early.
Robin Kaplan: So have you noticed a change in your baby’s breastfeeding patterns over this past month or they still kind of feeding I think they were feeding a couple last month, they were feeding every couple hours and going longer stretches at night and stuff like that. What’s it looking like for now for you?
Cherri Christiansen: Cali is still pretty much doing that. I think she’s taking, you know, every now and then and I’ll kind of do it pre and post-feed way inside notice that she’s taking a little bit more and at each session but I don’t feel like she’s nursing less pretty much on me. So I think she’s still going as often and just taking in more milk. We definitely had some cropped some issues with her in the beginning where she was really spitting up a lot and turn lights talk about it coz whenever I talk about she spits up. Better don’t say anything for 2 months it doesn’t happen but that seems to really, really have gotten better and I know it’s, I knew its normal but it was still little bit alarming because I would feel like she just spat up like ounce for ounce every ounce now and she just took in and clearly I think it was just, you know, part of normal underdevelopment of her, you know, of her system and she seems to be getting much better so but she still nursing, she’s still nursing a lot. I think the one thing that I have noticed it much harder was we really
use to try and get to her before she was crying like, crying was the lost thing and one of the things that was really great was whenever she was hungry she would put her hands by her mouth and that was one of the easiest cue’s for me to pick up now her hands are always in her mouth like,24/7 she has a hand in her mouth and so it’s become a little bit harder to kind of pick up sometimes on when she isn’t, you know, isn’t hungry but yeah she is been doing great and she’s, we definitely kind of you know, getting much more in to the rhythm of things and I realized days go by where I am just like, oh everything is just completely normal, you know this is what I wanted from day one.
Robin Kaplan: Yeah.
Cherri Christiansen: It just took us you know two to three months to get there.
Robin Kaplan: And you bring up a really good point before, Anney before you share, but right around three months when babies are starting to put their hands and toys and things in their mouth, it is really challenging to find out when they are hungry because that is no longer a cue anymore and I think that sometimes some parents don’t know that and so they are like “why is my baby is hungry all the time” but actually it’s no longer an instinct for them to put their hands in their mouth and point to their mouth and say like put something in here right now and feed me. Now it’s just like, oh this is awesome I found my hands I found this little chew toy and I am gonna chew toy it’s like a dog but you know well no toy and then because they feel good on their gums and now they how to use their hands.
Cherri Christiansen: I just have to compete with her hands though because I am trying to nurse her and her hands are in the way and always were but now it’s just like she has so much of control over them and you know ,the second like sometimes she will kind of like pop off a little bit and before I can get her latched on again there’s a hand in her mouth you know and I am like no, no and then sometimes that I just forgot on her maybe she just wants hands in her mouth and I let her keep the hand, you know, we will try again 15 minutes.
Robin Kaplan: Absolutely, Anney how about you? Breastfeeding looking the same for you now?
Anney Hall: No, but I don’t know how to describe what it is right now because we are both confused
Robin Kaplan: So let’s talk about it. Put in what’s confusing.
Anney Hall: So we had a pretty good pattern of like three hours cycle of eat, play sleep kind of cycle and she would sleep for about hour or hour and half, and so that was it and then the last few days she; well last couple of weeks she was up at different times in the night just once but just up at different times and so that threw me off and then she will wake up in the morning at different times and I was getting used to her being up around seven-seven thirty so that’s works so great with a daily routine and I can figure that out and then this last week five and then eight and it was four and then seven, but then she wasn’t hungry at seven so I was expecting her to eat right when she woke and she wasn’t hungry right when she woke up.
Robin Kaplan: Yeah.
[00:14.58]
Anney Hall: So then, I would feed her again at 8 but then it was kind of a half feeding and then I had to go to work so I don’t get to be home, make me emotional to figure it out.
Robin Kaplan: Yeah.
Anney Hall: So, she is eating plenty through the bottle through the day but just right now I tried to feed with her bottle and today, with the breast she was like I don’t wanna it. So she might be I don’t know a little bit of teething and her hands in her mouth and all those saliva and maybe she is a little confused too and she doesn’t know when she wants it, I don’t know so.....
Robin Kaplan: Something will doubt into her and she figures out.
Anney Hall: So I feel like she’s in transition to a new pattern.
Robin Kaplan: Yeah.
Anney Hall: And maybe she’s gonna be up a little bit longer, maybe she needs a little bit more every time she eats so I have decided to into the four ounces its five and so I am trying that, I will be trying that; but I just I haven’t figured out what she needs when.
Robin Kaplan: Yeah.
Anney Hall: So that’s where I am.
Robin Kaplan: And the other thing that’s really common with babies who, I am sure we will be talking about this next month actually, it's very common when babies hit that kind of four-month mark they become very distractible at that breast like their sitting there and they are calm and all of sudden they're like ohh, it’s shiny and they flip in there and sometimes with your nipple in their mouth they are ground.
Anney Hall: No, totally true.
Robin Kaplan: Yeah, and so what we find a lot and I remember with my own kids too, as they were sleeping great until about four months and then all of sudden we had this reversal where they were starting to wake up more frequently in the middle of the night and I think it’s because they are not getting as much in the day time.....
Cherri Christiansen: Right.
Robin Kaplan: Because they are like woo shinny and so unless you sitting in a quiet room and really kind of setting your nursing routine then they kind of snack through the day and then at night they are like, oh I need to wake up coz I am actually hungry, whereas my four year is like wow you know you’re not hungry, you're powering through it. Why are you hungry now? Is it something with my supply and often times that is nothing to do with the supply but just that they for a snack throughout the day cause they were so interested in talking about how would now everything is not so overwhelming to them but actually very interesting and they wanna interactive with their environment. Sometimes they interact when they are trying to eat and so they need to be you know in a quieter space sometimes so you might be something that you can try with Cali and see if maybe you can set up this you probably are already doing this anyway if not just find a quiet space in your home or when you’re out where it’s just that two of you and she is spending more time there and so that way it’s not disturbing kind of this breastfeeding, bottle feeding all that kind of stuff going on so, just a little tip bet. Think Cali is awake?
Cherri Christiansen: Someone has just workouts.
Robin Kaplan: Exactly well perfect timing Cali.
Cherri Christiansen: She said I am gonna let you know I am hungry!
Robin Kaplan: Exactly, when we come back, we will be discussing how Anney and Cherri are dealing with their returning back to work and pumping and I know that both of them had some questions that they
want to talk about today.So, we will be right back.
[Theme Music]
Robin Kaplan: Alright, so we are back and Anney, I know you had a question.Y ou had mentioned to me that you’re curious about increasing your fat content in your milk and so if I may ask, are you worried about the fat content of your milk? What kind of sparked this question for you?
Anney Hall: I heard through a friend who has a daughter that her wife was looking to increase the fat content so she started to drinking dark beers like Porters and dark beers to increase the fat content and so I thought to myself for why do you need to increase the fat content?Do I not make enough fat? Coz she said one of her friends actually I think it is Jen, her milk has a; if you look at the four ounces there’s like two ounces of fat and then the rest is regular.
Cherri Christiansen: Wow.
Anney Hall: Right and so she says.....
Robin Kaplan: That’s exorbitant actually.
Anney Hall: So, well its butter and cream just like your kids had, so I thought well is this supposed to be like that and I didn’t really look anything up. I just thought I need to talk to Robin about this. What do I do to make more fat?Am I supposed to have more fat and then I read a little bit about that is not so much about the fat, it’s just about the amount. But I was curious is there something that I am not doing right in my diet.
Robin Kaplan: Well, I loved that question. I actually.... when you asked it, I was like hmm I don’t know the answer to that so I went on to Kelly mom.
Cherri Christiansen: That’s my favorite place.
Robin Kaplan: That’s your favorite place, and it I mean I had kind of I had an assumption about it but I just I want to make sure that I had the correct answer and so you are correct.Its more about the amount the babies getting and rather than the fat content and so really the way to ensure that your baby is getting enough of that hindmilk that we hear a lot about which I actually have an article on my website for the San Diego Breast Feeding Centre about that the foremilk hindmilk imbalances actually quite a controversy coz I find that a lot of moms unnecessarily worry about it because it’s really not something to worry about unless you see some symptoms and some signs a bit but essentially the more full your breast is, the longer you’ve gone to say things first thing in the morning and your baby’s had a four, five, six hours chunk of time that your baby slept then your milk is actually gonna be more watery, it’s gonna have more foremilk because your breast already, your goods are stretched to capacity, okay? But then, if you feed more regularly and it doesn’t allow them to fill up as much then the percentage-wise that we’re looking at foremilk and hind milk is gonna be a little bit more balanced, and so the more that you have been there, the more foremilk that is, but so really its and it also increases your milk production the more that you empty your breast. So it’s not necessarily there is anything that you can do to increase the fat content of your milk. Every women’s fat content is different and it fluctuates throughout the entire time that they’re breastfeeding. I
think I would actually like to see this women’s milk coz I be really surprised if its two ounces of cream and two ounces of foremilk coz even in my good days when my kids were like cat-like chunky, chunky babies it’s still only skim of the top of it when it froze.
Cherri Christiansen: Okay.
[00:21.09]
Robin Kaplan: So yeah, so I think that’s and again your babies getting hindmilk even from that first drop that they are taking, but the percentage of it compare to the foremilk is lower but then the throughout the feeding as your babies on there its higher hindmilk concentration, higher hind milk concentration, and then towards end of the feeding it’s kind of flip flops so there is more hindmilk in there and less foremilk, so as long your baby is draining the breast and draining it regularly whether you’re at work and pumping or your babies is on you, you know throughout the day and night then your baby’s is accessing all the fat content that they need as long as the ounces are kind of meeting their needs so.....
Anney Hall: Well and I think that’s whatlet me to not so much a question but an understanding after reading that I think I read that same thing, at work when I pump I wasn’t necessarily draining. I was just going for 10 or 15 minutes but I also was thinking that I have to hurry up.
Robin Kaplan: Yeah.
Anney Hall: So there was that sort of pressure and pull that I have put on myself but did last couple of days I have just gone for 20 minutes and it looks like I have drained a lot.
Robin Kaplan: That’s a good idea.
Anney Hall: So and then also it gives me more of a supply.
Robin Kaplan: Yeah, and the other thing is to as if your press for time during those..... so say you pump for 10 minutes without any massage and maybe you’re reading your iPhone just to kind of decompress for a little bit listening some music those last five minutes if you have 15 minutes get in there and really massage especially like underneath the armpit and preferably the breast is where that really hard to access milk kind of hangs out and that’s the creamier milk and so really kind of comprising and pushing from the outer edges of the breast to the nipple, I would find that towards the end of my pumping session when I was at work if I squeezed my breast together and gave myself some really sweet cleavage that would actually give me whole another ounce, than if wouldn’t have done that and so that also another way rather than pumping for longer but just actually doing some hands-on massage while your pumping for really get the milk out.
Cherri Christiansen: So would actually be squeezing that whole ounce or just do it once and then it would stimulate the extra ounce to come out in that compression?
Robin Kaplan: Oh good I would actually do the compression for about 5 minutes.
Cherri Christiansen: Okay.
Robin Kaplan: So in line with...
Cherri Christiansen: We’re doing it here, we’re practicing. [Laughs]
Robin Kaplan: I know we are trying, squeezing it to the Cali’s mouth but it’s kind of the same philosophy we were in the beginning when your baby is just the first few days old and you're trying to keep them awake at the breast and so you're pressing your breast to kind of squeeze the milk into their mouth, same time type of things towards the end of your pumping sessions or the end of your breastfeeding sessions too. Using those compressions just helps get the milk out and so yes, they would use it for probably the last five minutes in it; I would find that I the time, when all of sudden my milk would not becoming out any more, would be sooner rather than if I didn’t use massage at all also.
Anney Hall: Yeah.
Robin Kaplan: Maybe I didn’t use massage I would take 20 minutes to for further flow to really stop, but if I use to massage it would take about 15 cause once I let go it’s like there’s nothing else coming out so I felt like I really maximize my pumping session. So
I know right, Cherri you had mentioned to me that, you know, you are kind of feeling stress about going back to work?
Cherri Christiansen: Yes!
Robin Kaplan: It’s a very emotional experience.
Cherri Christiansen: I will not cry.
Robin Kaplan: Yes
Cherri Christiansen: I will not cry; I will not cry.
Robin Kaplan: I cried for the first week when I was back at work I totally remember that.....
Cherri Christiansen: Yeah.
Robin Kaplan: That just sobbing, but it definitely gets better I know that but you were saying that you kind of worry about this and even now while your worrying about it if you’ve noticed that you are supply can go down it’s really affected by the mental.
Cherri Christiansen: I think I mean you know if you collide definitely you have an oversupply in the beginning which I think contributed and exsiccated better all of the other issues that I had and it was a tough problems I have just coz I meet so many people in my breastfeeding support groups who didn’t have enough milk and so they are like oh Boo-hoo, you have too much milk. But, I definitely sort of saw things sort of stabilizing and I thought that okay, you know the time and body’s kind of gotten sort of used to the rhythm of things and kind of sucked up from the pumping a little bit just coz I hate pumping and I was just kind of really busy and stuff like that and I didn’t, before I was pumping because I felt like I needed too because I was so engorged still inside I would have to pump a little bit. I would pump maybe once a day and then was once in every other day and once in every two days and then it kind of started getting less and less, then all of sudden I realized I was like I should probably stop pumping. Again, I am going back to work we need to make sure that we are giving Cali a bottle and that was one all of sudden I started to notice the difference because you know the only you can’t really notice a huge difference in your supply when your just nursing because you never
see the milk which I know is why so many people have frustration with the breastfeeding but it was when I was pumping that I was seeing a huge difference. My bottles are of 5 ounce bottles and I would notice that I could full them up pretty quickly within literally five minutes. I would turn the pump on so yes and he is looking at me like crazy here which was why I was thinking a pumping at work is going to be a breeze coz I was thinking where am I gonna have time to do these 15-20 minutes pumping sessions and I thought this is fantastic it will only takes me 5 minutes so that’s great, and then when
I kind of started pumping a little bit more regularly I noticed that I wasn’t getting as much milk.So one day I pumped and I got one and half ounces out of the left when I normally get about four and half selves like ok that’s a significant difference and then the right side was always kind of the over producer well, more than the left side and I would normally get like five or five and half and I noticed I was only getting only four and the more I started to noticing those I think the more It started to stressing me out and I think of it as probably a little bit of vicious cycle and I kind of just decided, this was only about maybe 2 weeks ago since then I just decided you know what maybe I need just be pumping every day, every day, try and become more consistent and I noticed that it has been going up,
Robin Kaplan: Oh, good.
[00:26.33]
Cherri Christiansen: Especially since I have been trying to relax a little a bit not as much as it was before, but the thing that I am noticing now is it’s taking 15-20 minutes for the same amount of milk that I used to get in 5 and so I am not sure why is it taking so much longer to get the exact same amount of milk that I used to get before.
Robin Kaplan: Yeah, well my thought it probably is that you did have such an oversupply before and Cali was taking was less and so and we also find the most women’s milk, their breast and their milk supply kind of regulates in about 12 weeks and your body just stops, you don’t wanna walk around on a permanence state of engorgement.
Cherri Christiansen: No.
Robin Kaplan: And so and you are body doesn’t want to you to either because it’s closed down your supply and it may decrease your supply if you are an up for the permanent state of engorgement and so.....
Cherri Christiansen: Good point.
Robin Kaplan: Yeah, so now that your body is regulated it’s now meeting Cali’s need more regularly rather than overcompensating or making more than she needs and that’s probably why you are finding that its taking longer because it’s not just pouring out like it was before but its actually not, actually not supposed to.It should take because think about how long does Cali stay at the breast when she nurses?
Cherri Christiansen: She’s been on for a while around for a while, normally if sometimes she is done in 5-10 minutes.
Robin Kaplan: Okay.
Cherri Christiansen: She is always really, really fascinator.
Robin Kaplan: Well, she’s also gonna be stronger than the pump.
Cherri Christiansen: Yeah.
Robin Kaplan: And so try the massage and see if that helps because they do find and moms sometime is, you have to psychologically let down for the pump.
Cherri Christiansen: I know, I know.
Robin Kaplan: It’s different.
Cherri Christiansen: Yeah.
Robin Kaplan: And so if pumping is stressing you out find some things that make it so that way it’s not so stressfully. We actually just had an episode released a couple of weeks ago about maximizing your pumping sessions where we talked about.....
Cherri Christiansen: I’ll go listen to that.
Robin Kaplan: Yeah, just about ways in which you make pumping work for you better and see if those help to really kind of get your some milk flow a little bit more easily.
Cherri Christiansen: I got early on and I got one of those hands-free bra’s. I thought that’s gonna be fantastic coz the first couple of session sitting in there and holding the two bottles but find it actually makes it a little bit harder to kind of get in and do the massage and feel what’s going on and feel if my breast is empty because the bra is so tightened that it is so much of compression from the bra so is that my hands-free but it makes little harder so I am going to go experiment.
Robin Kaplan: Okay.
Cherri Christiansen: Next couple days and I let you know.
Robin Kaplan: Okay, sounds good.Anney, what type of advice do you have for Cherri kind of going back to work or with the things kind of popping in your head while Cherri was talking?
Anney Hall: There were I was thinking about in the beginning about the pumping situation was uncomfortable for me and made me sad and........
Robin Kaplan: When you were back at work?
Anney Hall: When I was back at work at already, and just feeling like it was part of my routine or my day, but now that I have been at back at work I think for now a month it definitely feels a lot more normal and I am de-sensitized to it that you know, here I am, I am just pumping and I have a cover and everyone knows that what’s happening so it’s, and I have let go of the sensitivity that I was feeling before too, so it’s definitely a little bit easier and I don’t have as much privacy as you might be able to have I don’t know. So, that having the cover was a big deal and then I was also getting nervous that I sometimes because of meetings or things that were going on I was skipping up our pumping session and so I thought it was its not going to make my supply going down and whatever so talked with Robin about it and she advised to do an extra pump at night and then maybe do a little bit in the morning. So, as long as I am continually getting the milk out and making sure that I have enough bottles for the next day for once she’s with her carry giver her then, then I feel okay.
Cherri Christiansen: Oh okay.
Anney Hall: And now I am all screwed up because she’s not, she’s I don’t know what, when she’s hungry and how much she’s taking in and how much she needs so I am in a state of confusion. [
[00:30.24]
Audience: Hi!
Cherri Christiansen: When Cali’s awake.
Audience: Hi Cali, coz your smiling at everyone.
Robin Kaplan: Well, ladies I think that kind of wraps up our show today we definitely delve more into this, “Hi sweetheart” we can definitely delve more into this you know going back to work, the topic is what Cali, how many more earth Cali [Audience Laughs and says Cherri tell us]
Cherri Christiansen: I know I have noticed people calling me Cali lately and I figure it you know what I’ll just answer that until she’s is old enough for to answer the Cali I will answer.
Robin Kaplan: I am just scaring at her; she’s so damn cute. Cherri how many more weeks do you have before you go back to work?
Cherri Christiansen: I think I have probably about four and half weeks.
Robin Kaplan: Okay! So we.......
Cherri Christiansen: That’s a little while I may see you again before the next one but it will probably be days.
Robin Kaplan: Now you’ll definitely have some questions afterward.
Cherri Christiansen: Yes.
Robin Kaplan: Well ladies thank you so much for sharing your experiences breastfeeding your babies during their fourth month of life and Cherri we wish you the best of luck for returning to work, hopefully we don’t speak to you before then.
Cherri Christiansen: Thank you.
Robin Kaplan: And we look forward to catching up with the two of you as well as Jen in the few weeks, so thanks so much for coming.
[Theme Music]
Robin Kaplan: Before we end our episode today, here is a hilarious breastfeeding oops from one of our listeners.
[Featured Segments: Boob Oops]
Aaren: Hi my name is Aaren and I have nine-month-old son named Cash and this is my boob oops. I had never breastfeed in public and when Cash was about six months old we finally managed to go out with some friends. They had invited us to watch a game; so we went to petco park and they had these wonderful seats right behind the home plate and I thought okay, this a good time to go ahead and try and breastfeed in public. So I started to nurse Cash and since he’s not accustomed to being nursed with a cover, he threw the cover back and threw himself back exposing all of my business to those around me and I managed to get covered up and get him calm and everything and then a few minutes later my hostess turns to me and she says Aaren you know, I think that because we are behind home plate we are on national television.Yeah! So much for the first time in to nonchalantly and covertly breastfeed in public, so!
Robin Kaplan: If you have a breastfeeding oops you would like to share please call our Boob Group Hotline at 619-866-4775 and we’ll highlight it in our upcoming episode. Thank you to all our listeners. I hope you’ll visit the website
https://www.theboobgroup.com and add your stories about breastfeeding your three to four-month-old in the comment section on this episode page. Coming up next week, we’ll be discussing sex and
breastfeeding, not at the same time. Thanks for listening to The Boob Group, because mothers know breast.
[00:33.19]
[Disclaimer]
This has been a New Mommy Media Production. Information and materials contained in this episode are presented for educational purposes only. Statements and opinions expressed in this episode are not necessarily those of New Mommy Media and should not be considered facts. Though such information in which areas are released to be accurate, it is not intended to replace or substitute for professional, medical and advice or care and should not be used for diagnosing or treating healthcare problem or disease or prescribing any medications. If you’ve questions or concerns regarding your physical or mental health or the health of your baby, please seek assistance from a qualified healthcare provider.
[00:34.05]
End of Audio
