Transcript: Breastfeeding Nurse-Ins: Helpful or Harmful?

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The Boob Group
Breastfeeding Nurse-Ins: Helpful or Harmful?

[00:00:00]

Please be advised, this transcription was performed from a company independent of New Mommy Media, LLC. As such, translation was required which may alter the accuracy of the transcription.

[Theme Music]

SUNNY GAULT: Almost all States in US have some law that protects breastfeeding mothers allowing them to nurse their babies in public, but that doesn’t mean that laws are always upheld and the result can be devastating to a mom who simply wants to feed her baby. Organizing a nurse-in is one way to raise awareness about these discrepancies and to encourage change. So what exactly happens during a nurse-in? How are they organized? And do they really make a difference? Today we are chatting with breastfeeding moms to answer the question-are nurse-ins helpful or harmful, you make the decision. We are The Boob group.

[Intro/Theme Music]

SUNNY GAULT: Welcome to The Boob Group! We're here to support all moms wanting to provide breast milk for their babies. I'm Sunny Gault and I’m hosting the show today with a few other mammas which we are going to meet in just a second. If you haven’t yet, we encourage to check the New Mommy Media app, we have a network app, where you can listen to all of our podcasts on the go, so that includes The Boob group. But if you are, I don’t know, if you download apps and you really like to have every app separate, we also have an app just for The Boob group. It’s a great way to listen to all of our episodes on the go. You can star you favorite episodes. It’s great if you are in an area where the internet is maybe cutting out because you can download them to your phone, your mobile device, and you can listen to them wherever you go. Also, if you are on iTunes, we would love for you to subscribe to our show. That way you get all of our episodes automatically downloaded to your mobile device, or if you want to listen to iTunes on your computer, whichever way you want, it’s right there at your disposal. And if you are on iTunes, we would love for you to just leave us a review-tell us how The Boob group has helped you, suggest any ideas for the show, because we are always open for that as well.

Alright, so let’s meet some of the mamas that are joining us in our conversation today. Ladies, tell us a little bit about yourself and your family. So Julie, let’s start with you.

JULIE: Hi, my name is Julie. I have an eight-month-old daughter named Jade and that’s just pretty much it.

SUNNY GAULT: And that’s your story. Where are you based at, Julie?

JULIE: Portland, Oregon.

SUNNY GAULT: Portland, Oregon. Welcome to the conversation! And African Moon! Moon, how are you doing today?

AFRICAN MOON: Oh, not bad. How are you?

SUNNY GAULT: I am wonderful! So tell us a little bit about your family for our listeners you haven’t met you yet.

AFRICAN MOON: I have three children. My eldest is my only daughter, she is eight. And then I have two boys, one four, and the other one is four months old.

[Theme Music]

SUNNY GAULT: Alright, so before we start in our conversation today about nurse-ins, there is a very, very popular story that is going around the internet right now. Obviously, we are in the mist of learning more about these presidential candidates and in the middle of debates and all of this stuff going on. So have you guys heard of Boobs for Bernie? Both Julie and Moon, have you heard for Boobs for Bernie yet?

AFRICAN MOON: Absolutely.

JULIE: I’ve heard a little bit.

SUNNY GAULT: If you’ve been on Facebook, you’ve probably seen this. So here is what happened, there was a breastfeeding mom, Elle I think is her name. She is actually from Ohio and I am an Ohio originally too, so go Ohio! There was a Bernie Sanders rally in Cleveland and she was there with her six-month-old daughter Harper. So they were seated in the second row and Harper, as babies always do, decide they want to breastfeed when there isn’t the most opportune moment, isn’t not like when we are at home and just relaxed and have time to breastfeed-it’s like when you baby needs to nurse, you baby needs to nurse.

Doesn’t matter if there is a presidential candidate on stage, right? So Harper indicated she was hungry and so the mamma breastfed her daughter in their seat. Which part of me thinks: "Why? This should be so commonplace, why is this even making headlines?” But anyway, so she starts breastfeeding her baby and there are photos of course, you know, rally for presidential candidate, there are photos been taken at the Bernie Sanders rally and a photographer captures image of her breastfeeding her baby, and if you guys haven’t seen it yet, we will post a link on our Facebook page, you can check-in out.

Elle is going all for it, you know, she is stand-up and she is holding her baby, breast-feeding her baby and chanting, it looks like for Bernie Sanders, something that Bernie said. On Facebook the hashtag was created #BoobsForBernie. So basically what happened is, I don’t anything happened during the actual speech, but after the speech was over Bernie actually made his way over to the mom and thanked her for doing something that was just very natural and not thinking that she had to change anything simply because there were at a rally for presidential candidates.
So Moon, let’s start with you. What do you think about that article and #BoobsForBernie?

AFRICAN MOON: So one of the things that you mentioned was that it is funny that this is a topic. This is why it’s so important for us to keep saying that breastfeeding is natural, because something so minor to us because we have breastfed, you have four, I have breastfed three, you know, because this is something like our everyday life becomes a big deal because they don’t see it, they don't hear it, they don't know what’s going on out here. They have been… You know, you turn on the radio, or you turn on the TV, or you turn on YouTube, because I get slammed about it on YouTube, and you get formula commercials everywhere. What nobody is seeing is breastfeeding. What nobody is talking about is breastfeeding.
So the moment it happens is like “Wow! Did you just see that lady? She was actually breastfeeding in a crowd full of people!” And we are thinking: “Well, she has a child, of course she is!” But we have to have these conversations so that it does actually become something natural, so it won’t cause attention. But you know, we have to keep talking about it.

The only way something becomes a normal part of society is when we keep bringing it up to people, when we keep letting them know that we are going to keep doing this and it’s going to happen, so you better get used to seeing breasts as often, excuse me-with babies attached to them, as you are with seeing bottles, or actually seeing a boob hiked-up with these bras on, you know. This is a natural part of life and we've gotten away from that, so I love it! I love it! You look at this picture and you screaming with her. As soon as I saw it I said: “Yeah! Go ahead, girl, thank you, I am glad we are talking about this at the presidential conversation!” Yeah, we need to keep doing this!

SUNNY GAULT: Yes, yes, and you know what I love? I love that it transcends political beliefs. I don’t think that it really matters what your political take is on this, you know, whether you want to vote republican, democrat, I don’t think it matters. I think breastfeeding moms when they see this they could be at anybody's rally and they would be like: “Thank you! Thank you for someone giving light to this!” and you know and just taking a stand and saying: “Yeah, this is a really normal thing!” but like Moon said-the more you get it out in the public, the more commonplace #normalizebreastfeeding, right you know, the more it’s going to become a commonplace. So Julie, what’s your take on this?

JULIE: Yeah, I think it’s just great! As Moon said, we need to talk about these things, it’s of those. I guess a lot of moms back in the ages didn't leave the house and so it wasn’t normalized and it wasn’t seen, and now that we are able to support ourselves more, be more independent as you know women, we are progressing.

SUNNY GAULT: And you know you are right. This is definitely a step in the right direction. So that’s it for this headline. We are going to ahead and post it on the Facebook page if you guys want to take a look at it. Honestly, I don’t know how you haven’t already seen it if you are on Facebook, but if you want to check it out, there it is.

[Theme Music]

SUNNY GAULT: Today we are talking about nurse-ins which are aimed to raise awareness about laws that protect the right of moms to breastfeed in public which unfortunately not all the time do people even know these laws frankly. A lot of times people see it and view it as some sort of obscenity if a mom isn’t covered up when she is breastfeeding her baby in public. So that’s what nurse-ins are aimed to do, to shed light on this. And so we are talking about the pros and cons with nurse-ins and I think before we get into the pros and cons, we need to kind of give you guys some examples of things that have happened. So, I’ve invited Julie to be on the show, because she helped organize a nurse-in and I’m going to let her tell us a little bit more about this. Julie, what prompted-up the nurse-in at the Portland Marshalls that you are a part of?

JULIE: Well, I saw Karina Gomez’s story about how she wanted to use a fitting room to nurse her baby and she was directed towards the bathrooms by an employee from Marshalls and so she actually posted on the Marshalls page her experience and it was shared all over-from moms groups that I am in on Facebook, lots of them were discussing about having a nurse-in and to be honest, I didn’t even know what nurse-in was, you know.
My baby was only two at the time and was struggling with breastfeeding a little bit myself, so it kind of hit home for me. So I planned this nurse-in to empower other women around me, locally, I didn’t realize it was going to blow up as much as it did. I created the page on Facebook and I invited all of my friends, they invited their friends, we posted on moms groups, they all did their thing. It got a lot of up-roader from all kinds of different people all the way from Canada, Arizona… It was great! Seeing her story just made me really angry that somebody would do that, but at the same time, this person wasn’t educated or trained to know that she was allowed to go in there and feed her baby and she can feed her baby wherever she wants too. So that was kinds of my way of bringing awareness to the situation that we are allowed to breastfeed wherever we want.

SUNNY GAULT: What I find so interesting about his story, and you know, all nurse-ins have their stories, but with Karina, she wasn’t even trying to do it out where the other customers were, wasn’t she was trying to do it in a dressing-room and someone stopped her?

JULIE: Right, she was trying to do it where she was comfortable in a fitting room and I guess some people felt that it wasn’t an inappropriate place for her to feed her baby. I am not understanding how a bathroom would have been better, but I guess the employee felt that it was only for customers to try on clothes.

SUNNY GAULT: So let me get this straight. If someone is in a dressing-room, they need privacy, right? You are talking about someone getting completely undressed to put on another clothes, to try other clothes. That is as private as, that’s more private than a public restroom. Moon, am I missing something on this?

AFRICAN MOON: Yeah, you know, the problem is not that she wanted to utilize the fitting-room. The problem is people who don’t breastfeed or don’t support breastfeeding equate breastfeeding with eliminating ways. That’s why they immediately totally: “Go to the bathroom! Go to the bathroom where we don’t, I don’t want to even think about the fact that you could be in there, with the door closed where I can’t see you and your breastfeeding!”, that’s the problem. It doesn’t have anything to do with the fact that they didn’t want anyone in that space. Is that our minds have gotten so used of thinking of eliminating ways and breastfeeding in the same conversation?

SUNNY GAULT: That’s an excellent point. I think you are spot-on with that. Julie, when it came down to organizing this, what was your first step? Did you reach out to Karina first? Was it more just about getting other moms to support a nurse-in? What was your first step?

JULIE: Well, I tried to reach out to Karina, but she got so overwhelmed with the responses on her original post, that she actually turned off her Facebook for a few days. But one of her friends reached out to me after I had posted a comment on her post about doing the nurse-in and then created the page. She reached out to me and told me that she was friends with Karina, so we kind of both collaborated the whole nurse-in together.

SUNNY GAULT: Like you said, it started with… What did you create? Like a Facebook event or something or you created a page to support it and then an event for the actual nurse-in?

JULIE: Yes, we created the event together.

SUNNY GAULT: Then what kind of supper did you get? I mean let’s set the actual nurse-in aside for a second. Let’s talk about the support that you got on the Facebook page. Were people finding this from just the area or were you getting some people from you know all over the country to way-in on this?

JULIE: At first it was just locally. A few people were commenting how it reached out to Arizona. I think there was one person who commented about reaching out to Canada. That was the furthest that I know of that got to and then eventually like news channels reached out to me, so it got even bigger from there.

SUNNY GAULT: So everyone wants to know how, at what point did Marshalls got involved? Did they hear about this? Or it was literally you showed up and they were like: “What the heck is this?”

JULIE: So on the original post, they told her to contact them and so I believe that was on a Thursday or on a Friday. I got involved I believe on a Saturday, that Saturday, and so the news interviewed me on Sunday, and so when the news contacted them is when they finally gave their apology to Karina and they found out about the nurse-in and all that stuff. So they weren’t as cooperative as like another nurse-in, GoodWill, they provide water and all that stuff for that nurse-in, but they weren’t apposed to it as well. I mean, the point wasn’t to boycott them either.

SUNNY GAULT: That’s a good point. In your mind what was the point of the nurse-in? What were you trying to accomplish?

JULIE: I was just trying to bring awareness, you know, because a lot of people don’t realize that it is a law for us to be able to feed wherever we want to and so I think that a lot of retail and restaurants need a lot of more training and educations for their employees.

SUNNY GAULT: I mentioned in the intro that in most of the States have laws that protect, in most meaning all but one really has come out and said that the breastfeeding moms have the right to do that in public, for some reason Idaho, I don’t know what’s going on in Idaho, but Idaho is the only one in the fifty States that hasn’t created a law for this yet. So it is perfectly legal to do this. So as far as what happened on the day of, kind of walk us trough this a little bit, Julie, what happened?

JULIE: I was shut up and there was probably like ten moms already there, just feeding their babies. It was very warming and welcoming environment. They were all just talking with each other. No one was bothering us, no one gave us dirty looks, Marshalls minded their own business, like I said nobody was there to boycott them, it was just to bring attention to the situation and let other moms know that it’s okay, you know, that we are supporting.

SUNNY GAULT: So you showed up and was there a point when everyone latched their babies, I mean it wasn’t just moms holding their babies, right? How did you organize that?

JULIE: Oh, yeah, moms I guess whenever their babies need to be fed, they fed their babies. A lot of moms waited and quite a few of them were all latched at the same time. Some moms showed up later so it was just like whenever their babies were hungry. We’ve stayed probably for about half an hour to an hour.

SUNNY GAULT: And you were right there at the entrance of Marshals?

JULIE: Yes, we were off to the side a little bit of the entrance.

SUNNY GAULT: How many people you think showed up in total?

JULIE: Well, while I was there I would say 25-30 moms. And I know a few dads showed up too, which was great. I mean, I think that’s huge for fathers to also step-in and show support.

SUNNY GAULT: Overall, do you think it was successful?

JULIE: I do. I think it was very successful, you know, I think Marshalls will definitely take it more serious to train their employees and I think it would also help other retail and restaurants to educate their employees too.

AFRICAN MOON: You know, Julie, I have to say that I appreciate the fact that you stepped in and said that this mother stressed, she already had a bad experience, she already has a new-born, so she doesn’t need this nonsense right now, so I am going to step in and help her. So I really love the fact that you did that and this is the power of motherhood, like we can bond on those levels where you can't say: “Moms aren’t doing anything!” No! You said: "Mom is stressed, she has shut off her Facebook page right now, she needs a break, but I am going to help mom to make sure that people get to learn from the abuse that she suffered!”. And I appreciate the fact that you did that!

JULIE: Thank you!

SUNNY GAULT: Yeah, you are absolutely right, because you didn’t know Karina, I mean you reached out to her afterwards, but this was really just pulling at your heartstrings as a mom while what did you say that your baby was what, about two months at the time?

JULIE: Yes, she was about the same age like Karina’s baby.

SUNNY GAULT: Wow! So you really I mean did maybe even unintentionally bond with Karina on a level, and you haven’t even met her before. Was Karina a part of the nurse-in at all? Just out of curiosity?

JULIE: No, but a lot of her friends were. Yeah, I got to meet them a little bit face to face and talk with them and make sure she was doing okay.

SUNNY GAULT: Moms helping other mamas! That’s what we do! So when we come back, we are going to learn more about some other nurse-ins that have taken place all over the country, we are going to have Moon share her story, which is really powerful and what she went through, and we are also going to break down some of the pros and cons of what happens in these nurse-ins and what the other side is saying, because we definitely think that moms should be aware, because not everyone is going to be supportive of these rights, so we’ll break down this for you as well. We’ll be right back.

[Theme Music]

SUNNY GAULT: Welcome back we’re talking about nurse-ins and the big question we’re trying to ask ourselves today is “Are they helpful of harmful perhaps a little bit of both? “ We just want to educate everyone on what happens in these nurse-ins and what to be mindful of is you thinking about doing this for yourself or for somebody else. All right so Moon it is your turn, a mamma, tell us a little bit about your story and what happened with you.

AFRICAN MOON: So this was four years ago, my son was two weeks old at the time and I was getting on the bus and anyone who’s ride in public transportation before know that maneuvering with two children and strollers and diaper bags and trying to breastfeed all at the same time is a chore in itself and when I was getting on the bus I have my son strapped on me and the bus driver looked at me and she says “What is that?” And she stood up and sort of looked in to see what I was doing and she says “ Oh no, is that a …” I don’t know how many words I can use on the show so I will censure myself a little bit here but I say “yeah, I’m breastfeeding my son.”

And she says “Oh no, oh no, you will not do that here” and she caught me off guard because I was like “Wait! What?!” she didn’t say “Hey let me help you with the stroller or you know I had my daughter she was three and I had my son. I was going to rent a car so I had two car seats and a stroller and I had my three-year-old and I had my son tide on me and I was just really focused on trying to not leave anything outside you know.
So when she came at me with this I was in shock like I can’t really be having a conversation with you right this second about breastfeeding and she says, she literary put the bus in park and says “You’re getting to get off my bus!” and I’m like “Um, oh no! It took me a lot to get here, I’m not going anywhere!” And she says “I’m not leaving until you get off my bus.” And I “I guess we’re staying here then” because at the time my baby was two weeks old, I’m on maternity leave, I got all day, you know.

She called the police department where I was, where we lived at the time and they had dealt with me once before, so they decided not to come out, like you know “There’s no problem with her breastfeeding” but I was across the street from a mall, so she went to have mall security come to get me off the bus. So they’re like “You’re going to jail!” and then my baby girl started crying like “Oh no, I don’t want my mom to get arrested” and then this woman was like “We’re not going until you get off my bus “and all of this nonsense and I stood my ground not so much because I knew I was in the right, I stood my ground because I was thinking “No, this can’t really be happening to me. Am I in the twilight zone?” you know.

It’s the whole time that I want to cry and I want to hit all at the same time you know. So when I finally get off the bus, I didn’t get off the bus then she decided to go but when I finally got to my stop and got off the bus my feelings were hurt like I couldn’t believe it I’m like , this was so hurtful not so much because she was downing me but she scared my baby, they scared my child, they had her crying and there was nothing I could do about it, you know like I couldn’t say anything other than “I’m not going”.

So I went on Facebook, I love Facebook, I went on Facebook to tell people what happened and I typed out this long message about what happened and the I got offline and went to rent a car and by the time I got home I have 500 emails and I’m thinking “What the heck is going on here?” You know. And I start reading and people are like “No, this is nonsense, I can’t believe that this is happened to you” you know “You must make a video” so I’m like “Okay, I’ll make a video and put it on YouTube” and I thought that this is going to be it.

I’ve got a chance to complain and I will be fine, but no it’s like spiral it’s this huge thing were other moms like “Maybe you shod have a nurse-in?” I didn’t know what the heck a nurse-in was four years ago and I was like “okay” and when I didn’t know what I was getting my hand into first of then because nurse-ins are definitely, they’re powerful, but they definitely are overwhelming especially when you have a new-born. I mean my phone started ringing at 5 or 6 o’clock in the morning, with the radio stations calling me to ask me questions and I want to cry because I’m like “Hey people I just had a baby I’m sleeping leave me alone, okay I’m stressed out already“ she’s already heard my phones, but it became such a beautiful thing to see all of the people who said “I support you”.

When we had out nurse-in outside of the bus station about 70 mothers showed up, dads were out there, the news media was out there, some people who are my very good friends right now I met at that nurse-in and it was so powerful to have someone say “What happened to you was wrong!” and I keep getting these questions “Were you covered?” and I started answering at first like “Yeah I had my baby in my wrap when she looked into my personal space” and then I stopped answering that question because I started wondering why does that matter, does is matter whether I was covered or not?

You know, this woman had the people threatening me to put me in jail because I was breastfeeding, like how we really become so sick that the thought of watching a mother-mother her child is police worthy, you know, so I really I have become a fan of nurse-ins since that moment because it was such a powerful thing that I absolutely needed because I was all for breastfeeding obviously because I was doing so, and I’m all for breastfeeding in public, but she hurt my feelings. And had it not been for so many people standing behind me? There’s no way I’m stopping breastfeeding after that, you know because it really is hurtful and nobody wants to deal with that kind of nonsense.

SUNNY GAULT: Oh my Gosh! What did the bus company have to say about this?

AFRICAN MOON: So, originally the bus company came out and called me a liar and said that what I was saying didn’t happen. That was their first … “Nope, it didn’t happen; our driver would never do that to a mother”. Then once the story started getting bigger, they sent me a bus card so I could ride on the bus for free for 30 days. I thought that was funny, you know, they never did say anything until we did the nurse-in and I am going to tell you – this is the power behind nurse-ins.

When we got to the bus station, they knew we were coming and they had this whole bus laid out and on the bus they had bottles of water and they had the air conditioner on because at the time this was in July and it was hot when you get outside. But they had the air conditioners on the bus and they had bottles of water and they were saying “No, no, no, we support breastfeeding. We do, we support breastfeeding” and it made them change their tune.

SUNNY GAULT: Could we be harming the cause at all in your guys’ opinion. Julie – any ideas?

JULIE: Hum…

SUNNY GAULT: Did you see anyone eye roll at Marshall’s?

JULIE: No, not … well, some of the employees were annoyed by it, I think, you know … it could have disrupted the normal shopping experience of other customers and kind of turn people away because they feel that it is not appropriate to be in public – breastfeeding in public. But others … I didn’t really get too many negative responses at Marshall’s. There were more people on the page saying that we should have done more of a protest at like a park to bring awareness. They didn’t feel that a nurse-in was an appropriate response to show support and bring … educate people about breastfeeding.

SUNNY GAULT: Well, I think what happens at nurse-ins is it is a little bit more confrontational, maybe not even … I don’t mean like physically confrontational but you are responding to something that someone very specifically has done or not done, right? And so there is an accusation there and so naturally it is a little bit more confrontational.

One of the things I was thinking about in preparing for this episode is what the difference between a nurse-in is – and you guys have heard of the big latch on, right? You know, where we gain support for mothers breastfeeding in public by meeting at certain places, a lot of the times they are public places but it is not like just meeting at Marshall’s because they did something to hurt a breastfeeding mom.

It is not in response to anything anyone in particular did, right? It is just “Let’s raise awareness! Let’s meet at different locations and Let’s be proactive!”I guess that is what I am looking for – let’s be proactive in getting moms to … not just moms but the whole community to be aware of breastfeeding, to normalize it as much as possible. And I think that that is one of the big differences – one is responding to a situation and one is being more proactive. Moon, any thoughts on nurse-ins versus something like the big latch on and the difference between the two?

AFRICAN AFRICAN MOON: See, I think people … I know being proactive is a lot better than being reactive but it is necessary to be both. People need to realize that there is more than one way to clean house, okay. What works for some people doing a big nurse-in or the big latch may get some peoples’ attention but what happens when you do a big latch, that sort of pulls in people who are already supporting breastfeeding.
Whereas a nurse-in makes people wonder “Why the heck they are in the store?”, “Why are they outside of the store?” or “What the heck is going on?” That brings more attention to people who would necessarily pay attention to anything else. So I appreciate it from both aspects because again education needs to be brought to everyone and not just the choir. We are already singing, we don’t need to just keep singing and preaching to the choir we need to have other people be aware of what is going on and I think nurse-ins do that because of the fact that it can be looked at as confrontational a bit.

SUNNY GAULT: Well and that is a really good point and we have a tendency to dwell on the negatives, just in general, in our life, right? So if you are looking, you would hear this all the time. I was actually, you know, in the news business before I started breaking out and doing other types of programming and you know, the stuff that is more confrontational is what is going to lead the news cast or what is going to be on the front page.
So, unfortunately, the confrontations are what end up being featured the most because it is what gets the most eyeballs. So yeah, to Moon’s point, I think you are right. I think the word is going to get out faster because it has almost a negative spin to it and that is unfortunate because I think a lot of people would rather, if it were, just as effective.

I think there would be a lot of moms that would say “Listen, let’s talk to Corporate”; “Let’s sit down and let’s meet with the right people”, “Let’s get the right people around the table to talk about policy change”, “Let’s talk about how are you going to educate your employees so that these moms are able to breastfeed in your environment because this is law”. And I think that that might be the ideal way to do it but you’ve got to get peoples’ attention is the issue. So sometimes you just have to kind of wake them up and until the press … you know, to Moon’s point is banging at their door, it might not happen, right?

AFRICAN MOON: Absolutely.

SUNNY GAULT: Okay ladies, I am sorry, you know, especially for Moon – I am so sorry that you went through that Moon but you know, on the other side of it – thank goodness you did because of all the cool stuff that you are doing now, I obviously really appreciate everything that you have done for the breastfeeding community. And Julie, just reaching out to a mom that you didn’t even know, just because you are a mom too and that wasn’t right and something needed to be done about it. So just kudos to both of you guys for stepping out even despite your own busy lives and everything just to help the breastfeeding cause.

Thank you guys for listening to today’s show. We really appreciate it. We will post some stuff on our Facebook page about nurse-ins; I would love to hear your experience with this and what worked for you. So if you are a member of our Boob Group Club then please check out the bonus content for this episode, we are exploring some tips on How to organize your own nurse-in.

[Theme music]

SUNNY GAULT: Okay everyone, it is time for fun segment we have on the Boob Group and it is called “Boob Oops” where you guys share your funny breastfeeding pumping stories. So this comes from Shelly and Shelly writes:

“My most embarrassing nursing moment certainly occurred during the Mass last year. The church was very crowded and I was still not totally comfortable nursing T-Jay in public so I decided to find a quiet, secluded place when he became hungry. What better place than the Eucharistic Chapel. I had never seen anyone going in or out of it during Mass time so I assumed it was safe. Since T-Jay was only two months old and I was quite the inexperienced nurser, I spent a good five minutes arranging myself and T-Jay and another 5 minutes of rearranging when I was finished. As I sat down in the last pew of the chapel, I felt very relaxed and secure and the fact that I was by myself. T-Jay nursed for quite a while and I allowed my blouse to hang open. As I wiped T-Jay’s mouth and prepared to close my blouse, my pastor walked in and looked right at me. I was absolutely mortified but he was very kind and nonchalant, simply commenting that I have found a good place to escape the crowd. I don’t think I will ever forget the time I gave my priest an eyeful but I also won’t forget his wonderfully understated response.

Oh my goodness, that’s a good one. If you guys have a funny “Boob Oops” story you want to share with us, we would love to hear it and we have a new way that you can send us those messages and it is through our website. We always like to get messages where you guys are actually doing the talking as opposed to just sending an email or something like that so head on to www.newmommymedia.com, you will see a gray banner on the side and there is a little icon of a microphone, it says “Leave voicemail”. If you click that, it is actually going to use the microphone from your computer and you can leave the message right there, just using your computer and it will come right to us so … hope to hear your responses soon!

[Theme music]

SUNNY GAULT: That wraps up our show for today. We appreciate you listening to The Boob Group.

Don’t forget to check out our sister show:
• Preggie Pals for expecting parents
• Newbies for newly postpartum moms
• Parent Savers for moms and dads with infants and toddlers and
• Twin Talks for parents with multiples.

Thanks for listening to The Boob Group. Your judgment-free breastfeeding resource.

[Disclaimer]
This has been a New Mommy Media production. The information and material contained in this episode are presented for educational purposes only. Statements and opinions expressed in this episode are not necessarily those of New Mommy Media and should not be considered facts. While such information and materials are believed to be accurate, it is not intended to replace or substitute for professional, medical advice or care and should not be used for diagnosing or treating health care problem or disease or prescribing any medications. If you have questions or concerns regarding your physical or mental health or the health of your baby, please seek assistance from a qualified health care provider.

SUNNY GAULT: New Mommy Media is expanding our line-up of shows for new and expecting parents. If you have an idea for a new series, or if you’re a business, or organization interested in joining our network of shows through a co-branded podcast, visit www.NewMommyMedia.com.

[00:35:09]
[End of Audio]

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Episode Transcript

The Boob Group
Breastfeeding Nurse-Ins: Helpful or Harmful?

[00:00:00]

Please be advised, this transcription was performed from a company independent of New Mommy Media, LLC. As such, translation was required which may alter the accuracy of the transcription.

[Theme Music]

SUNNY GAULT: Almost all States in US have some law that protects breastfeeding mothers allowing them to nurse their babies in public, but that doesn’t mean that laws are always upheld and the result can be devastating to a mom who simply wants to feed her baby. Organizing a nurse-in is one way to raise awareness about these discrepancies and to encourage change. So what exactly happens during a nurse-in? How are they organized? And do they really make a difference? Today we are chatting with breastfeeding moms to answer the question-are nurse-ins helpful or harmful, you make the decision. We are The Boob group.

[Intro/Theme Music]

SUNNY GAULT: Welcome to The Boob Group! We're here to support all moms wanting to provide breast milk for their babies. I'm Sunny Gault and I’m hosting the show today with a few other mammas which we are going to meet in just a second. If you haven’t yet, we encourage to check the New Mommy Media app, we have a network app, where you can listen to all of our podcasts on the go, so that includes The Boob group. But if you are, I don’t know, if you download apps and you really like to have every app separate, we also have an app just for The Boob group. It’s a great way to listen to all of our episodes on the go. You can star you favorite episodes. It’s great if you are in an area where the internet is maybe cutting out because you can download them to your phone, your mobile device, and you can listen to them wherever you go. Also, if you are on iTunes, we would love for you to subscribe to our show. That way you get all of our episodes automatically downloaded to your mobile device, or if you want to listen to iTunes on your computer, whichever way you want, it’s right there at your disposal. And if you are on iTunes, we would love for you to just leave us a review-tell us how The Boob group has helped you, suggest any ideas for the show, because we are always open for that as well.

Alright, so let’s meet some of the mamas that are joining us in our conversation today. Ladies, tell us a little bit about yourself and your family. So Julie, let’s start with you.

JULIE: Hi, my name is Julie. I have an eight-month-old daughter named Jade and that’s just pretty much it.

SUNNY GAULT: And that’s your story. Where are you based at, Julie?

JULIE: Portland, Oregon.

SUNNY GAULT: Portland, Oregon. Welcome to the conversation! And African Moon! Moon, how are you doing today?

AFRICAN MOON: Oh, not bad. How are you?

SUNNY GAULT: I am wonderful! So tell us a little bit about your family for our listeners you haven’t met you yet.

AFRICAN MOON: I have three children. My eldest is my only daughter, she is eight. And then I have two boys, one four, and the other one is four months old.

[Theme Music]

SUNNY GAULT: Alright, so before we start in our conversation today about nurse-ins, there is a very, very popular story that is going around the internet right now. Obviously, we are in the mist of learning more about these presidential candidates and in the middle of debates and all of this stuff going on. So have you guys heard of Boobs for Bernie? Both Julie and Moon, have you heard for Boobs for Bernie yet?

AFRICAN MOON: Absolutely.

JULIE: I’ve heard a little bit.

SUNNY GAULT: If you’ve been on Facebook, you’ve probably seen this. So here is what happened, there was a breastfeeding mom, Elle I think is her name. She is actually from Ohio and I am an Ohio originally too, so go Ohio! There was a Bernie Sanders rally in Cleveland and she was there with her six-month-old daughter Harper. So they were seated in the second row and Harper, as babies always do, decide they want to breastfeed when there isn’t the most opportune moment, isn’t not like when we are at home and just relaxed and have time to breastfeed-it’s like when you baby needs to nurse, you baby needs to nurse.

Doesn’t matter if there is a presidential candidate on stage, right? So Harper indicated she was hungry and so the mamma breastfed her daughter in their seat. Which part of me thinks: "Why? This should be so commonplace, why is this even making headlines?” But anyway, so she starts breastfeeding her baby and there are photos of course, you know, rally for presidential candidate, there are photos been taken at the Bernie Sanders rally and a photographer captures image of her breastfeeding her baby, and if you guys haven’t seen it yet, we will post a link on our Facebook page, you can check-in out.

Elle is going all for it, you know, she is stand-up and she is holding her baby, breast-feeding her baby and chanting, it looks like for Bernie Sanders, something that Bernie said. On Facebook the hashtag was created #BoobsForBernie. So basically what happened is, I don’t anything happened during the actual speech, but after the speech was over Bernie actually made his way over to the mom and thanked her for doing something that was just very natural and not thinking that she had to change anything simply because there were at a rally for presidential candidates.
So Moon, let’s start with you. What do you think about that article and #BoobsForBernie?

AFRICAN MOON: So one of the things that you mentioned was that it is funny that this is a topic. This is why it’s so important for us to keep saying that breastfeeding is natural, because something so minor to us because we have breastfed, you have four, I have breastfed three, you know, because this is something like our everyday life becomes a big deal because they don’t see it, they don't hear it, they don't know what’s going on out here. They have been… You know, you turn on the radio, or you turn on the TV, or you turn on YouTube, because I get slammed about it on YouTube, and you get formula commercials everywhere. What nobody is seeing is breastfeeding. What nobody is talking about is breastfeeding.
So the moment it happens is like “Wow! Did you just see that lady? She was actually breastfeeding in a crowd full of people!” And we are thinking: “Well, she has a child, of course she is!” But we have to have these conversations so that it does actually become something natural, so it won’t cause attention. But you know, we have to keep talking about it.

The only way something becomes a normal part of society is when we keep bringing it up to people, when we keep letting them know that we are going to keep doing this and it’s going to happen, so you better get used to seeing breasts as often, excuse me-with babies attached to them, as you are with seeing bottles, or actually seeing a boob hiked-up with these bras on, you know. This is a natural part of life and we've gotten away from that, so I love it! I love it! You look at this picture and you screaming with her. As soon as I saw it I said: “Yeah! Go ahead, girl, thank you, I am glad we are talking about this at the presidential conversation!” Yeah, we need to keep doing this!

SUNNY GAULT: Yes, yes, and you know what I love? I love that it transcends political beliefs. I don’t think that it really matters what your political take is on this, you know, whether you want to vote republican, democrat, I don’t think it matters. I think breastfeeding moms when they see this they could be at anybody's rally and they would be like: “Thank you! Thank you for someone giving light to this!” and you know and just taking a stand and saying: “Yeah, this is a really normal thing!” but like Moon said-the more you get it out in the public, the more commonplace #normalizebreastfeeding, right you know, the more it’s going to become a commonplace. So Julie, what’s your take on this?

JULIE: Yeah, I think it’s just great! As Moon said, we need to talk about these things, it’s of those. I guess a lot of moms back in the ages didn't leave the house and so it wasn’t normalized and it wasn’t seen, and now that we are able to support ourselves more, be more independent as you know women, we are progressing.

SUNNY GAULT: And you know you are right. This is definitely a step in the right direction. So that’s it for this headline. We are going to ahead and post it on the Facebook page if you guys want to take a look at it. Honestly, I don’t know how you haven’t already seen it if you are on Facebook, but if you want to check it out, there it is.

[Theme Music]

SUNNY GAULT: Today we are talking about nurse-ins which are aimed to raise awareness about laws that protect the right of moms to breastfeed in public which unfortunately not all the time do people even know these laws frankly. A lot of times people see it and view it as some sort of obscenity if a mom isn’t covered up when she is breastfeeding her baby in public. So that’s what nurse-ins are aimed to do, to shed light on this. And so we are talking about the pros and cons with nurse-ins and I think before we get into the pros and cons, we need to kind of give you guys some examples of things that have happened. So, I’ve invited Julie to be on the show, because she helped organize a nurse-in and I’m going to let her tell us a little bit more about this. Julie, what prompted-up the nurse-in at the Portland Marshalls that you are a part of?

JULIE: Well, I saw Karina Gomez’s story about how she wanted to use a fitting room to nurse her baby and she was directed towards the bathrooms by an employee from Marshalls and so she actually posted on the Marshalls page her experience and it was shared all over-from moms groups that I am in on Facebook, lots of them were discussing about having a nurse-in and to be honest, I didn’t even know what nurse-in was, you know.
My baby was only two at the time and was struggling with breastfeeding a little bit myself, so it kind of hit home for me. So I planned this nurse-in to empower other women around me, locally, I didn’t realize it was going to blow up as much as it did. I created the page on Facebook and I invited all of my friends, they invited their friends, we posted on moms groups, they all did their thing. It got a lot of up-roader from all kinds of different people all the way from Canada, Arizona… It was great! Seeing her story just made me really angry that somebody would do that, but at the same time, this person wasn’t educated or trained to know that she was allowed to go in there and feed her baby and she can feed her baby wherever she wants too. So that was kinds of my way of bringing awareness to the situation that we are allowed to breastfeed wherever we want.

SUNNY GAULT: What I find so interesting about his story, and you know, all nurse-ins have their stories, but with Karina, she wasn’t even trying to do it out where the other customers were, wasn’t she was trying to do it in a dressing-room and someone stopped her?

JULIE: Right, she was trying to do it where she was comfortable in a fitting room and I guess some people felt that it wasn’t an inappropriate place for her to feed her baby. I am not understanding how a bathroom would have been better, but I guess the employee felt that it was only for customers to try on clothes.

SUNNY GAULT: So let me get this straight. If someone is in a dressing-room, they need privacy, right? You are talking about someone getting completely undressed to put on another clothes, to try other clothes. That is as private as, that’s more private than a public restroom. Moon, am I missing something on this?

AFRICAN MOON: Yeah, you know, the problem is not that she wanted to utilize the fitting-room. The problem is people who don’t breastfeed or don’t support breastfeeding equate breastfeeding with eliminating ways. That’s why they immediately totally: “Go to the bathroom! Go to the bathroom where we don’t, I don’t want to even think about the fact that you could be in there, with the door closed where I can’t see you and your breastfeeding!”, that’s the problem. It doesn’t have anything to do with the fact that they didn’t want anyone in that space. Is that our minds have gotten so used of thinking of eliminating ways and breastfeeding in the same conversation?

SUNNY GAULT: That’s an excellent point. I think you are spot-on with that. Julie, when it came down to organizing this, what was your first step? Did you reach out to Karina first? Was it more just about getting other moms to support a nurse-in? What was your first step?

JULIE: Well, I tried to reach out to Karina, but she got so overwhelmed with the responses on her original post, that she actually turned off her Facebook for a few days. But one of her friends reached out to me after I had posted a comment on her post about doing the nurse-in and then created the page. She reached out to me and told me that she was friends with Karina, so we kind of both collaborated the whole nurse-in together.

SUNNY GAULT: Like you said, it started with… What did you create? Like a Facebook event or something or you created a page to support it and then an event for the actual nurse-in?

JULIE: Yes, we created the event together.

SUNNY GAULT: Then what kind of supper did you get? I mean let’s set the actual nurse-in aside for a second. Let’s talk about the support that you got on the Facebook page. Were people finding this from just the area or were you getting some people from you know all over the country to way-in on this?

JULIE: At first it was just locally. A few people were commenting how it reached out to Arizona. I think there was one person who commented about reaching out to Canada. That was the furthest that I know of that got to and then eventually like news channels reached out to me, so it got even bigger from there.

SUNNY GAULT: So everyone wants to know how, at what point did Marshalls got involved? Did they hear about this? Or it was literally you showed up and they were like: “What the heck is this?”

JULIE: So on the original post, they told her to contact them and so I believe that was on a Thursday or on a Friday. I got involved I believe on a Saturday, that Saturday, and so the news interviewed me on Sunday, and so when the news contacted them is when they finally gave their apology to Karina and they found out about the nurse-in and all that stuff. So they weren’t as cooperative as like another nurse-in, GoodWill, they provide water and all that stuff for that nurse-in, but they weren’t apposed to it as well. I mean, the point wasn’t to boycott them either.

SUNNY GAULT: That’s a good point. In your mind what was the point of the nurse-in? What were you trying to accomplish?

JULIE: I was just trying to bring awareness, you know, because a lot of people don’t realize that it is a law for us to be able to feed wherever we want to and so I think that a lot of retail and restaurants need a lot of more training and educations for their employees.

SUNNY GAULT: I mentioned in the intro that in most of the States have laws that protect, in most meaning all but one really has come out and said that the breastfeeding moms have the right to do that in public, for some reason Idaho, I don’t know what’s going on in Idaho, but Idaho is the only one in the fifty States that hasn’t created a law for this yet. So it is perfectly legal to do this. So as far as what happened on the day of, kind of walk us trough this a little bit, Julie, what happened?

JULIE: I was shut up and there was probably like ten moms already there, just feeding their babies. It was very warming and welcoming environment. They were all just talking with each other. No one was bothering us, no one gave us dirty looks, Marshalls minded their own business, like I said nobody was there to boycott them, it was just to bring attention to the situation and let other moms know that it’s okay, you know, that we are supporting.

SUNNY GAULT: So you showed up and was there a point when everyone latched their babies, I mean it wasn’t just moms holding their babies, right? How did you organize that?

JULIE: Oh, yeah, moms I guess whenever their babies need to be fed, they fed their babies. A lot of moms waited and quite a few of them were all latched at the same time. Some moms showed up later so it was just like whenever their babies were hungry. We’ve stayed probably for about half an hour to an hour.

SUNNY GAULT: And you were right there at the entrance of Marshals?

JULIE: Yes, we were off to the side a little bit of the entrance.

SUNNY GAULT: How many people you think showed up in total?

JULIE: Well, while I was there I would say 25-30 moms. And I know a few dads showed up too, which was great. I mean, I think that’s huge for fathers to also step-in and show support.

SUNNY GAULT: Overall, do you think it was successful?

JULIE: I do. I think it was very successful, you know, I think Marshalls will definitely take it more serious to train their employees and I think it would also help other retail and restaurants to educate their employees too.

AFRICAN MOON: You know, Julie, I have to say that I appreciate the fact that you stepped in and said that this mother stressed, she already had a bad experience, she already has a new-born, so she doesn’t need this nonsense right now, so I am going to step in and help her. So I really love the fact that you did that and this is the power of motherhood, like we can bond on those levels where you can't say: “Moms aren’t doing anything!” No! You said: "Mom is stressed, she has shut off her Facebook page right now, she needs a break, but I am going to help mom to make sure that people get to learn from the abuse that she suffered!”. And I appreciate the fact that you did that!

JULIE: Thank you!

SUNNY GAULT: Yeah, you are absolutely right, because you didn’t know Karina, I mean you reached out to her afterwards, but this was really just pulling at your heartstrings as a mom while what did you say that your baby was what, about two months at the time?

JULIE: Yes, she was about the same age like Karina’s baby.

SUNNY GAULT: Wow! So you really I mean did maybe even unintentionally bond with Karina on a level, and you haven’t even met her before. Was Karina a part of the nurse-in at all? Just out of curiosity?

JULIE: No, but a lot of her friends were. Yeah, I got to meet them a little bit face to face and talk with them and make sure she was doing okay.

SUNNY GAULT: Moms helping other mamas! That’s what we do! So when we come back, we are going to learn more about some other nurse-ins that have taken place all over the country, we are going to have Moon share her story, which is really powerful and what she went through, and we are also going to break down some of the pros and cons of what happens in these nurse-ins and what the other side is saying, because we definitely think that moms should be aware, because not everyone is going to be supportive of these rights, so we’ll break down this for you as well. We’ll be right back.

[Theme Music]

SUNNY GAULT: Welcome back we’re talking about nurse-ins and the big question we’re trying to ask ourselves today is “Are they helpful of harmful perhaps a little bit of both? “ We just want to educate everyone on what happens in these nurse-ins and what to be mindful of is you thinking about doing this for yourself or for somebody else. All right so Moon it is your turn, a mamma, tell us a little bit about your story and what happened with you.

AFRICAN MOON: So this was four years ago, my son was two weeks old at the time and I was getting on the bus and anyone who’s ride in public transportation before know that maneuvering with two children and strollers and diaper bags and trying to breastfeed all at the same time is a chore in itself and when I was getting on the bus I have my son strapped on me and the bus driver looked at me and she says “What is that?” And she stood up and sort of looked in to see what I was doing and she says “ Oh no, is that a …” I don’t know how many words I can use on the show so I will censure myself a little bit here but I say “yeah, I’m breastfeeding my son.”

And she says “Oh no, oh no, you will not do that here” and she caught me off guard because I was like “Wait! What?!” she didn’t say “Hey let me help you with the stroller or you know I had my daughter she was three and I had my son. I was going to rent a car so I had two car seats and a stroller and I had my three-year-old and I had my son tide on me and I was just really focused on trying to not leave anything outside you know.
So when she came at me with this I was in shock like I can’t really be having a conversation with you right this second about breastfeeding and she says, she literary put the bus in park and says “You’re getting to get off my bus!” and I’m like “Um, oh no! It took me a lot to get here, I’m not going anywhere!” And she says “I’m not leaving until you get off my bus.” And I “I guess we’re staying here then” because at the time my baby was two weeks old, I’m on maternity leave, I got all day, you know.

She called the police department where I was, where we lived at the time and they had dealt with me once before, so they decided not to come out, like you know “There’s no problem with her breastfeeding” but I was across the street from a mall, so she went to have mall security come to get me off the bus. So they’re like “You’re going to jail!” and then my baby girl started crying like “Oh no, I don’t want my mom to get arrested” and then this woman was like “We’re not going until you get off my bus “and all of this nonsense and I stood my ground not so much because I knew I was in the right, I stood my ground because I was thinking “No, this can’t really be happening to me. Am I in the twilight zone?” you know.

It’s the whole time that I want to cry and I want to hit all at the same time you know. So when I finally get off the bus, I didn’t get off the bus then she decided to go but when I finally got to my stop and got off the bus my feelings were hurt like I couldn’t believe it I’m like , this was so hurtful not so much because she was downing me but she scared my baby, they scared my child, they had her crying and there was nothing I could do about it, you know like I couldn’t say anything other than “I’m not going”.

So I went on Facebook, I love Facebook, I went on Facebook to tell people what happened and I typed out this long message about what happened and the I got offline and went to rent a car and by the time I got home I have 500 emails and I’m thinking “What the heck is going on here?” You know. And I start reading and people are like “No, this is nonsense, I can’t believe that this is happened to you” you know “You must make a video” so I’m like “Okay, I’ll make a video and put it on YouTube” and I thought that this is going to be it.

I’ve got a chance to complain and I will be fine, but no it’s like spiral it’s this huge thing were other moms like “Maybe you shod have a nurse-in?” I didn’t know what the heck a nurse-in was four years ago and I was like “okay” and when I didn’t know what I was getting my hand into first of then because nurse-ins are definitely, they’re powerful, but they definitely are overwhelming especially when you have a new-born. I mean my phone started ringing at 5 or 6 o’clock in the morning, with the radio stations calling me to ask me questions and I want to cry because I’m like “Hey people I just had a baby I’m sleeping leave me alone, okay I’m stressed out already“ she’s already heard my phones, but it became such a beautiful thing to see all of the people who said “I support you”.

When we had out nurse-in outside of the bus station about 70 mothers showed up, dads were out there, the news media was out there, some people who are my very good friends right now I met at that nurse-in and it was so powerful to have someone say “What happened to you was wrong!” and I keep getting these questions “Were you covered?” and I started answering at first like “Yeah I had my baby in my wrap when she looked into my personal space” and then I stopped answering that question because I started wondering why does that matter, does is matter whether I was covered or not?

You know, this woman had the people threatening me to put me in jail because I was breastfeeding, like how we really become so sick that the thought of watching a mother-mother her child is police worthy, you know, so I really I have become a fan of nurse-ins since that moment because it was such a powerful thing that I absolutely needed because I was all for breastfeeding obviously because I was doing so, and I’m all for breastfeeding in public, but she hurt my feelings. And had it not been for so many people standing behind me? There’s no way I’m stopping breastfeeding after that, you know because it really is hurtful and nobody wants to deal with that kind of nonsense.

SUNNY GAULT: Oh my Gosh! What did the bus company have to say about this?

AFRICAN MOON: So, originally the bus company came out and called me a liar and said that what I was saying didn’t happen. That was their first … “Nope, it didn’t happen; our driver would never do that to a mother”. Then once the story started getting bigger, they sent me a bus card so I could ride on the bus for free for 30 days. I thought that was funny, you know, they never did say anything until we did the nurse-in and I am going to tell you – this is the power behind nurse-ins.

When we got to the bus station, they knew we were coming and they had this whole bus laid out and on the bus they had bottles of water and they had the air conditioner on because at the time this was in July and it was hot when you get outside. But they had the air conditioners on the bus and they had bottles of water and they were saying “No, no, no, we support breastfeeding. We do, we support breastfeeding” and it made them change their tune.

SUNNY GAULT: Could we be harming the cause at all in your guys’ opinion. Julie – any ideas?

JULIE: Hum…

SUNNY GAULT: Did you see anyone eye roll at Marshall’s?

JULIE: No, not … well, some of the employees were annoyed by it, I think, you know … it could have disrupted the normal shopping experience of other customers and kind of turn people away because they feel that it is not appropriate to be in public – breastfeeding in public. But others … I didn’t really get too many negative responses at Marshall’s. There were more people on the page saying that we should have done more of a protest at like a park to bring awareness. They didn’t feel that a nurse-in was an appropriate response to show support and bring … educate people about breastfeeding.

SUNNY GAULT: Well, I think what happens at nurse-ins is it is a little bit more confrontational, maybe not even … I don’t mean like physically confrontational but you are responding to something that someone very specifically has done or not done, right? And so there is an accusation there and so naturally it is a little bit more confrontational.

One of the things I was thinking about in preparing for this episode is what the difference between a nurse-in is – and you guys have heard of the big latch on, right? You know, where we gain support for mothers breastfeeding in public by meeting at certain places, a lot of the times they are public places but it is not like just meeting at Marshall’s because they did something to hurt a breastfeeding mom.

It is not in response to anything anyone in particular did, right? It is just “Let’s raise awareness! Let’s meet at different locations and Let’s be proactive!”I guess that is what I am looking for – let’s be proactive in getting moms to … not just moms but the whole community to be aware of breastfeeding, to normalize it as much as possible. And I think that that is one of the big differences – one is responding to a situation and one is being more proactive. Moon, any thoughts on nurse-ins versus something like the big latch on and the difference between the two?

AFRICAN AFRICAN MOON: See, I think people … I know being proactive is a lot better than being reactive but it is necessary to be both. People need to realize that there is more than one way to clean house, okay. What works for some people doing a big nurse-in or the big latch may get some peoples’ attention but what happens when you do a big latch, that sort of pulls in people who are already supporting breastfeeding.
Whereas a nurse-in makes people wonder “Why the heck they are in the store?”, “Why are they outside of the store?” or “What the heck is going on?” That brings more attention to people who would necessarily pay attention to anything else. So I appreciate it from both aspects because again education needs to be brought to everyone and not just the choir. We are already singing, we don’t need to just keep singing and preaching to the choir we need to have other people be aware of what is going on and I think nurse-ins do that because of the fact that it can be looked at as confrontational a bit.

SUNNY GAULT: Well and that is a really good point and we have a tendency to dwell on the negatives, just in general, in our life, right? So if you are looking, you would hear this all the time. I was actually, you know, in the news business before I started breaking out and doing other types of programming and you know, the stuff that is more confrontational is what is going to lead the news cast or what is going to be on the front page.
So, unfortunately, the confrontations are what end up being featured the most because it is what gets the most eyeballs. So yeah, to Moon’s point, I think you are right. I think the word is going to get out faster because it has almost a negative spin to it and that is unfortunate because I think a lot of people would rather, if it were, just as effective.

I think there would be a lot of moms that would say “Listen, let’s talk to Corporate”; “Let’s sit down and let’s meet with the right people”, “Let’s get the right people around the table to talk about policy change”, “Let’s talk about how are you going to educate your employees so that these moms are able to breastfeed in your environment because this is law”. And I think that that might be the ideal way to do it but you’ve got to get peoples’ attention is the issue. So sometimes you just have to kind of wake them up and until the press … you know, to Moon’s point is banging at their door, it might not happen, right?

AFRICAN MOON: Absolutely.

SUNNY GAULT: Okay ladies, I am sorry, you know, especially for Moon – I am so sorry that you went through that Moon but you know, on the other side of it – thank goodness you did because of all the cool stuff that you are doing now, I obviously really appreciate everything that you have done for the breastfeeding community. And Julie, just reaching out to a mom that you didn’t even know, just because you are a mom too and that wasn’t right and something needed to be done about it. So just kudos to both of you guys for stepping out even despite your own busy lives and everything just to help the breastfeeding cause.

Thank you guys for listening to today’s show. We really appreciate it. We will post some stuff on our Facebook page about nurse-ins; I would love to hear your experience with this and what worked for you. So if you are a member of our Boob Group Club then please check out the bonus content for this episode, we are exploring some tips on How to organize your own nurse-in.

[Theme music]

SUNNY GAULT: Okay everyone, it is time for fun segment we have on the Boob Group and it is called “Boob Oops” where you guys share your funny breastfeeding pumping stories. So this comes from Shelly and Shelly writes:

“My most embarrassing nursing moment certainly occurred during the Mass last year. The church was very crowded and I was still not totally comfortable nursing T-Jay in public so I decided to find a quiet, secluded place when he became hungry. What better place than the Eucharistic Chapel. I had never seen anyone going in or out of it during Mass time so I assumed it was safe. Since T-Jay was only two months old and I was quite the inexperienced nurser, I spent a good five minutes arranging myself and T-Jay and another 5 minutes of rearranging when I was finished. As I sat down in the last pew of the chapel, I felt very relaxed and secure and the fact that I was by myself. T-Jay nursed for quite a while and I allowed my blouse to hang open. As I wiped T-Jay’s mouth and prepared to close my blouse, my pastor walked in and looked right at me. I was absolutely mortified but he was very kind and nonchalant, simply commenting that I have found a good place to escape the crowd. I don’t think I will ever forget the time I gave my priest an eyeful but I also won’t forget his wonderfully understated response.

Oh my goodness, that’s a good one. If you guys have a funny “Boob Oops” story you want to share with us, we would love to hear it and we have a new way that you can send us those messages and it is through our website. We always like to get messages where you guys are actually doing the talking as opposed to just sending an email or something like that so head on to www.newmommymedia.com, you will see a gray banner on the side and there is a little icon of a microphone, it says “Leave voicemail”. If you click that, it is actually going to use the microphone from your computer and you can leave the message right there, just using your computer and it will come right to us so … hope to hear your responses soon!

[Theme music]

SUNNY GAULT: That wraps up our show for today. We appreciate you listening to The Boob Group.

Don’t forget to check out our sister show:
• Preggie Pals for expecting parents
• Newbies for newly postpartum moms
• Parent Savers for moms and dads with infants and toddlers and
• Twin Talks for parents with multiples.

Thanks for listening to The Boob Group. Your judgment-free breastfeeding resource.

[Disclaimer]
This has been a New Mommy Media production. The information and material contained in this episode are presented for educational purposes only. Statements and opinions expressed in this episode are not necessarily those of New Mommy Media and should not be considered facts. While such information and materials are believed to be accurate, it is not intended to replace or substitute for professional, medical advice or care and should not be used for diagnosing or treating health care problem or disease or prescribing any medications. If you have questions or concerns regarding your physical or mental health or the health of your baby, please seek assistance from a qualified health care provider.

SUNNY GAULT: New Mommy Media is expanding our line-up of shows for new and expecting parents. If you have an idea for a new series, or if you’re a business, or organization interested in joining our network of shows through a co-branded podcast, visit www.NewMommyMedia.com.

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